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> Romanian troops during battle of Budapest 1944-45, I need help
Musashi
Posted: October 29, 2004 12:11 pm
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Hi!
I and my two friends make a mod for Close Combat V on the battle of Budapest in 1944-45. I was the main supporter of including Romanian troops to this mod. I derided my friends they hadn't know about Romanian involvement in that battle and I told them Romanian-Hungarian fights had been particularly fierce and tough.
Besides I felt bad when some people started to make a mod on battle of Berlin in 1945 and they didn't include Polish troops.

We need as many informations as you are able to provide about Romanian troops during this battle. We will consult with you regarding the strength of troops, morale, armament, etc. We need also photos of Budapest to make the maps of this city.

A few questions put by me were answered by Victor a few months ago on Axis History Forum.

QUOTE ("Victor")
QUOTE ("Musashi")
What was a standard Romanian rifle?


The Czechoslovak ZB VZ 24

QUOTE ("Musashi")
What was a standard Romanian light machine gun?


The ZB 30 (Czech or Romanian built)

QUOTE ("Musashi")
What was a standard Romanian heavy machine gun?


There were several models in use then: ZB 53, MG 34, MG 42.

QUOTE ("Musashi")
What was a standard Romanian pistol?


The officers used the 9 mm Beretta model 1934 pistol. The LMG gunner had a Steyer model 1912 as a side arm. Captured Soviet (Nagant or TT) or Geman pieces were also in use.

QUOTE ("Musashi")
What was a standard Romanian sub machine gun?


In late 1944-early 1945 there were several types in use: the Ortia model 1941, the Beretta 38, the PPSh 41, MP 40, MP 41. There is a photo of several soldiers of the 2nd Rosirori Regiment in Czechoslovakia, each carrying a different SMG.

QUOTE ("Musashi")
How many men counted an Romanian infantry squad?
Do you have any tables of equipment and organization?


Go to http://www.worldwar2.ro in the Organization section and you will find what you need I think.

QUOTE ("Musashi")
Do you have detailed Order of Battle of the Romanian troops?


2nd Infantry Division
1st Dorobanti Regiment Dolj
26th Dorobanti Regiment Rovine
31st Dorobanti Regiment Calafat
9th Artillery Regiment
14th Artillery Regiment

19th Infantry Division
94th Infantry Regiment
95th Infantry Regiment Imparatul Traian
96th Infantry Regiment
37th Artillery Regiment
42nd Artillery Regiment

9th Cavalry Division
5th Motorized Rosiori Regiment Imparatul Nicolae al II-lea
3rd Rosiori Regiment
13th Calarasi Regiment
6th Horse Artillery Regiment


We need sounds of Romanian rifles, machine guns, submachine guns, pistols, etc.
I bullied my friends, they hadn't done anything for this mod for a few months, but we had been focusing on our "national" mod on battle of Monte Cassino.

Regards,
Chris

This post has been edited by Musashi on October 29, 2004 03:35 pm
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dragos
Posted: October 29, 2004 05:44 pm
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QUOTE (Musashi)
We need sounds of Romanian rifles, machine guns, submachine guns, pistols, etc.


If I remeber well, CC included MG.30(t) which is the same with ZB-30 light machinegun

For the ZB-24 rifles, you can use the sound of Kar98k, because the two weapons were similar.
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Carol I
Posted: October 29, 2004 09:18 pm
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This topic was also discussed in Romanians in Battle of Budapest.
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Daniel S.
Posted: October 29, 2004 10:32 pm
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So, Chris, let's continue our talking from Axis History Forum...
Until now we have:

1. ZB VZ 24 rifle - Kar98k sound

2. ZB 30 LMG - MG 30(t) from CC III or British Bren from VetBob (or Gold-Juno-Sword) sounds

3.ZB 53 machinegun - here I don't know for sure but in case you don't find anything you can use MG 34 sound

4.Beretta M34 pistol - Walther P38 sound

5.Orita M41 SMG and Beretta M38 SMG - MP40 sound

That's all you need about small arms. If other members of the forum have better ideas I would enjoy. But let's see what weapons had a Romanian infantry squad (Grupa de lupta or Grupa de infanterie) of 1944-1945. We see its organization from this site but I don't know (just supose) the weapons eachone had:

1.Comandantul de grupa/Squad Leader - 1* Orita/Beretta M38 (1 man)
2.Echipa de puscasi-mitraliori/LMG Squad - 1* ZB 30 + 3 ZB 24 (4 men)
3.Echipa de puscasi-grenadieri/Grenadier Squad -5 ZB 24 (5 men)

Total: 10 men
*Leader and LMG had a sidearm - Berreta M34 pistol (I don't add other sidearms to don't fill Weapons file with too many weap.)

If others members know more they are welcome.
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dragos
Posted: October 29, 2004 10:46 pm
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Romanian soldiers street fighting in Budapest

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Daniel S.
Posted: October 30, 2004 01:53 pm
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Regarding this topic, it's a pitty that this site doesn't have any refferences to the Western campaigns of the Romanian army. The old sites like Dutch Helmet and Victor's site (I don't remeber its name) had also the West front battles in Operation section of the site. Maybe in the future...
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Musashi
Posted: October 30, 2004 02:19 pm
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Thank you :)
Could you provide me the information who was a commander of 2nd Infantry Division, 19th Infantry Division and 9th Cavalry Division with the photos of these commanders?
What was the difference between dorobanti and infantry regiment?
Which of those three Romanian divisions was the most effective?
What was experience and morale of the Romanian soldiers from those divisions comparing to other Romanian divisions (which did not take part in this battle) and Soviet divisions BEFORE the battle? Having read a book on this battle I know the morale of Romanian soldiers was high, but how about the experience/training?
For example I know Romanian mountain divisions were very effective during the Barbarossa. However what was it in Budapest? Were these units experienced? Had they full supply?
Were any Romanian air units engaged in this battle?

Regards,
Chris

This post has been edited by Musashi on October 30, 2004 02:23 pm
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dragos
Posted: October 30, 2004 05:35 pm
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QUOTE (Musashi)
Could you provide me the information who was a commander of 2nd Infantry Division, 19th Infantry Division and 9th Cavalry Division with the photos of these commanders?


You can find the complete list of Romanian division commanders here:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/comandanti/?language=en

QUOTE (Musashi)
What was the difference between dorobanti and infantry regiment?


None.

QUOTE (Musashi)
What was experience and morale of the Romanian soldiers from those divisions comparing to other Romanian divisions (which did not take part in this battle) and Soviet divisions BEFORE the battle?


Regarding experience, all of these units have fought on the eastern front.
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dragos
Posted: October 30, 2004 05:37 pm
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QUOTE (dragos @ Oct 30 2004, 08:35 PM)
You can find the complete list of Romanian division commanders here:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/comandanti/?language=en


Sorry, the dates in the list seem to be broken. We will try to fix it as soon as possible.

Edited: It has been fixed.
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Daniel S.
Posted: October 30, 2004 09:29 pm
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1.The commanders of:
-2nd Inf Div: Brigadier General/General de brigada Mihail Voicu
-19th Inf Div: Brigadier General/General de brigada Mihail Lacatusu
-9th Cav Div: Colonel Dumitru Neferu ( 31 October 1944 - 2 December 1944 ),
Colonel Vasile Botezatu ( 3 December 1944 - 17 December 1944 ) and Brigadier General Ilie Antonescu ( 18 December 1944 - 12 May 1945 ). It depends on the frame time you will use in the game.

I don't have photos of these commmanders, maybe someone here can help.

2. I would add that "dorobanti" was a 19th century traditional name for infantry. No differences in OoB.

3. The units were made of veterans, not only for the fact they fought on Eastern front but also due to their Western front experience. We must not forget they reached Budapest after fighting in Transilvania and Eastern Hungary. I think the morale was higher than average Soviet infantry (not including Guard Divisions) and below fanatical SS units.

Regards,
Daniel S.

This post has been edited by Daniel S. on October 30, 2004 09:43 pm
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Dénes
Posted: December 31, 2004 05:12 am
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In your opinion, why was the Rumanian 7th Corps ordered by the Soviet Commander of the 2nd Ukrainian Front to cease fighting on January 15, 1945 and move to another location, just two days before Pest (the Eastern part of Budapest) was occupied by Soviet forces?

Several possibilities come to my mind...

Was this ever officially explained in Rumanian history books?

Gen. Dénes

P.S. This is an important issue to me, and detailed and timely responses are appreciated.
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Victor
Posted: December 31, 2004 09:38 am
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During the first decade of November 1944, that is before the 7th Corps entered Budapest, lt. gen. Macici, CO of the 1st Army, asked the Soviet command to bring the 4th and 7th Corps (his two corps) in a common sector as they had been separated by the Soviets and he practically lacked direct command of his own army.

The reply from marshal Malinovsky was, several times, that the issue would be annalyzed shortly. Only in early January 1945, when the 7th Corps was engaged in hard fights inside Budapest, did he adress it and decided to move the corps to the present Hungarian-Slovakian border, where the 4th Corps was located. However Macici intervened and protested and the Soviet command replied that it was a "communication error". Soon after this the condition of the Romanian troops in Budapest worsened and made Macici report back to the General Staff that he was under the impression that the Romanian units were "destined for destruction". There was a report dated back to 23 December 1944 of teh 3rd Section of teh 1st Army's staff that stated that in the current rythm of operations, in which Romanian troops were not allowed any rest, they will surely loose their combat capabilities very soon.

On 12 January 1945 Malinovsky showed very much discontent on the fact that the Romanian troops were progressing slower than the neighbouring units and that if the "Romanians do not want to fight, the Red Army is big enough to replace them". He also added that many Romanian officers had expressed their dislike of continuing the fighting side-by-side with the Soviets. To this Macici replied that the only discontents were those regarding the Soviet abuses and the unclear situation of NW Transylvania and there was never the issue of not continuing the fight.

Three days later Malinovsky reassigned the 7th Corps, as it was only 2 km away from the Danube and after loosing 29% of its men in Operation Budapest.
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Dénes
Posted: January 05, 2005 04:13 am
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I try to piece together the list of commanders of the Regiments assigned to the 7th Army Corps in late 1944, as well as the respective chiefs of staff.

Here is what I found so far:

2nd Infantry Division (C/O Brig. Gen. Romulus Stănescu, then Brig. Gen. Mihail Voicu)
1st Dorobanti Regiment Dolj (Col. Virgil Rusu)
26th Dorobanti Regiment Rovine
31st Dorobanti Regiment Calafat
9th Artillery Regiment
14th Artillery Regiment (Col. Cristache Zamfirescu)

19th Infantry Division (C/O Brig. Gen. Mihail Lăcătuşu, Chief of Staff Lt. Col. Ioan Zăgănescu)
94th Infantry Regiment (Col. Ioan Ionescu)
95th Infantry Regiment Imparatul Traian (Col. Ştefan Mihăilescu)
96th Infantry Regiment (Col. Mihail Gheorghiu, then Lt. Col. Gavrilă Cosma)
37th Artillery Regiment
42nd Artillery Regiment (Col. Dumitru Danubianu)

9th Cavalry Division (Col. Dumitru Neferu, then Col. Vasile Botezatu, then Brig. Gen. Ilie Antonescu, Chief of Staff Lt. Col. Ioan Davidescu)
5th Motorized Rosiori Regiment Imparatul Nicolae al II-lea
3rd Rosiori Regiment (Lt. Col. Vasile Podhorschi)
13th Calarasi Regiment
6th Horse Artillery Regiment (Col. Dumitru Neferu)

Any chance to complete the missing commanders?
Answers until Friday evening would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Gen. Dénes
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Victor
Posted: January 05, 2005 10:26 am
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Other units that belonged to the 7th Corps and their commanders:
1st Heavy Artillery Regiment - CO col. Alexandru Dobriceanu
1st Battalion/36th AT Regiment - CO Maj. Alexandru Ivanov
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dragos
Posted: January 05, 2005 06:09 pm
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7th Corps Artillery - Col. Ilie Iliescu
7th Heavy Artillery Regiment - Col. Vasile Danacu
9th Artillery Regiment - Col. Gheorghe Zamfirescu
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