Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Romanian 3rd Corps in Kuban ('43-'44)
mabadesc
Posted: April 16, 2004 02:18 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 803
Member No.: 40
Joined: July 11, 2003



Can someone please give me some information about the Romanian Army 3rd Corps in the period October 1943 - February 1944?

First, I'd like to know what divisions it had under its command.

Also, I think that during that period the 3rd Corps operated in the Kuban region, but I don't know anything more specific: what mission was it given, etc...

Thanks in advance for any information.
PM
Top
Victor
Posted: April 16, 2004 05:58 am
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4350
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



The only "3rd Corps" operating in the Caucasus was the German 3rd Panzer Corps in late 1942. No Romanian 3rd Corps in the Caucasus.

Btw, during the peirod you are interested in the only troops in the Kuban were Soviet, as the Axis had retreated in September 1943.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
mabadesc
Posted: April 17, 2004 12:49 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 803
Member No.: 40
Joined: July 11, 2003



Sorry, I got my dates and places mixed up - don't know what I was thinking...

Let me ask the question again.

I'm trying to learn more about General Avramescu's activity (command, mission objectives) between July 1942, after Sevastopol was conquered, and February 1944, when he took command of 6th Corps. So far, this is the little info. I know:

1. From August 1942 to April 1943, he was still in command of the Mountain Corps and was engaged in operations in Kuban and then back in Crimea (the Crimean operations were mostly guard duty and partisan elimination). I also think he fought alongside General Mattenklot and the 42nd Corps, but I don't know what the missions were and whether the Mountain Corps was subordinated to the 42nd Corps.

2. Around October 7 - 10, he received command of the 3rd Corps, which I think was re-organizing and re-equipping at that time. Regardless, on October 12, 1943, his appendix burst and he nearly lost his life because of the infection. He was flown from Crimea to Bucuresti and operated on right away (he had been suffering from appendicitis for quite some time, but he ignored it until it was too late - when his appendix burst). Regardless, he didn't take practical command of the 3rd Corps until January 18th, 1944, after he had recovered. One funny note about his illness is that, right after he was flown to Bucuresti and operated on, Antonescu visited him at the Regina Elizabeta hospital and criticized him for getting sick during such a busy time ("Bine domnule, tocmai acum ti-ai gasit si tu sa te imbolnavesti?").
So basically, I'm trying to find out what he and the 3rd Corps did between January 18, 1944, and April 1st, 1944, when he took command of the 6th corps.

I guess these are the 2 main questions.

By the way, Victor, I found out some more biographical info. on Avramescu which may interest you for the profile you wrote about him. Just some scattered bits of information. Here they are:
a) In the early 1930's, he enrolled and graduated from Iasi University Law School, in their part-time program (fara frecventa), so he was also an attorney, licenced to practice law.
cool.gif On October 7, 1917, he was wounded on his right arm during an enemy counterattack in the battles of Perveli, Dobrogea.
c) Between 1918 and 1933, he served as chief of the Information Bureau (Seful Biroului 2 Informatii si Contrainformatii) first at 2nd Corps, then 3rd Corps, then 5th Corps, and finally of the "Comandamentul Frontului de Est".
d) In 1933 (or 1936) he received command of the 10th Infantry Division, stationed in Dobrogea, with headquarters at Braila.
e) I am still trying to obtain a copy of his promotion decree to General de Armata, which he received in late 1944 (some time between October 26, 1944 and January 11th, 1945). My uncle saw the decree (brevet) with his own eyes, bu he can't remember the exact date. When I find definite proof, I'll let you know about the details.

Well, hope you find some of the data useful.
If you (or anyone) can help me with my 2 questions, I would be grateful.
PM
Top
Victor
Posted: April 17, 2004 07:32 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4350
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



QUOTE
1.  From August 1942 to April 1943, he was still in command of the Mountain Corps and was engaged in operations in Kuban and then back in Crimea (the Crimean operations were mostly guard duty and partisan elimination).  I also think he fought alongside General Mattenklot and the 42nd Corps, but I don't know what the missions were and whether the Mountain Corps was subordinated to the 42nd Corps.


The 2nd Mountain Division and later the 3rd Mountain Division, which served in the Caucasus in that period were subordinated to German corps. Teh Mountain Corps had practically no attributions during that campaign other than those in Crimea.

QUOTE

2.  Around October 7 - 10, he received command of the 3rd Corps, which I think was re-organizing and re-equipping at that time.  Regardless, on October 12, 1943, his appendix burst and he nearly lost his life because of the infection.  He was flown from Crimea to Bucuresti and operated on right away (he had been suffering from appendicitis for quite some time, but he ignored it until it was too late - when his appendix burst).  Regardless, he didn't take practical command of the 3rd Corps until January 18th, 1944, after he had recovered.  One funny note about his illness is that, right after he was flown to Bucuresti and operated on, Antonescu visited him at the Regina Elizabeta hospital and criticized him for getting sick during such a busy time (\"Bine domnule, tocmai acum ti-ai gasit si tu sa te imbolnavesti?\").
So basically, I'm trying to find out what he and the 3rd Corps did between January 18, 1944, and April 1st, 1944, when he took command of the 6th corps.


The actions of Romanian troops on the Eastern Front in late 1943 and early 1944 on the Eastern Front (with the exception of Crimea) are a little blury to me. Haven't found yet a work that deals properly with them.

I know that the 24th Infantry Division and the 4th Mountain Division fought north of Crimea during 1943 and suffered a defeat (like the entire Army Group South and A), but I do not know exactly to which corps they were assigned and if it was a Romanian or a German corps. Manstein does not mention any Romanian corps in the German 6th Army in that period.

The 3rd Corps appears in the OoB of the 3rd Army in March-April 1943 in the battles in Trans-Dnestra and on the Dniester. But at that time, gen. Avramescu was no longer its commander (he held command until 22 February 1944).
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
mabadesc
Posted: April 17, 2004 11:46 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 803
Member No.: 40
Joined: July 11, 2003



QUOTE
The actions of Romanian troops on the Eastern Front in late 1943 and early 1944 on the Eastern Front (with the exception of Crimea) are a little blury to me. Haven't found yet a work that deals properly with them.  


Yeah, I know what you mean. I have had the same problem. All the romanian WWII books skip over that period of time.

Anyway, thanks for trying to answer. If I find anything, I'll let you know. If you find any further info., please do the same.
PM
Top
dragos
Posted: June 16, 2004 08:23 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 2397
Member No.: 2
Joined: February 11, 2003



QUOTE
I know that the 24th Infantry Division and the 4th Mountain Division fought north of Crimea during 1943 and suffered a defeat (like the entire Army Group South and A)


The 24th Infantry Division was formed in March 1943 from the remnants of 7th and 11th Infantry Divisions, consolidated with petty criminals and detainees, as a punishment unit. It was assigned safeguard missions in the Nogai Steppe.
PMUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
Victor
Posted: June 17, 2004 06:57 am
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4350
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



The Nogaisk Steppe is north of Crimea. In late 1943 it was engaged into battles there, when the front reached the Dnepr.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Nika
Posted: September 24, 2008 06:15 am
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1
Member No.: 2255
Joined: September 24, 2008



QUOTE (Victor @ June 17, 2004 06:57 am)
The Nogaisk Steppe is north of Crimea. In late 1943 it was engaged into battles there, when the front reached the Dnepr.

May I ask you more about that particular period? Specifically, where in the Dnepr river vicinity the Romanian and German army corps were located in early 1944, and if you know of specific German officers in charge of Romanian companies/brigades...more precisely motorcycle detachments...?
I am looking for a relative...

Thank you very much!
PMEmail Poster
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.0397 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]