Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS Rumanische Nr. 1, About these hero's nobody speaK

The romanian troops who fighr against the russian afert 23. august 1944, nobody
speak, vae victis

hi there...
The units of this division were trained at Dollersheim, Austria.
In romanian they were designated as the "Romanian national army". Were form after an decree of the national gouverment in exile in Viena from legion members and romanian pow's.
General staff: General Platon Chirnoaga, Lt. col. Ciobanu, Col. Alexandrescu, and for aviation purposes Com. Bailla.
In charge with the troop training was appointed Col. Alexandrescu.
The first comander of the division was: Col. Alfred Ludwig who was replaced in 1945 by Col. Fortenbach.
Com. of the 1'st regiment was: Maj. Wenhert whit the battalion comanders: Opris and Dreve.

Other romanian troops in special ops: iv Jagdcommando Skorzeny, 70 members, commanded by Major Toba. Some of the members were airlifted after the war in Romania.


see pics at : http://www.fgmanu.net/imag/legiunea_in_imagini.htm

try second row group
....at 2. "armata nationala"

This post has been edited by aerialls on October 06, 2004 02:58 pm

The "Waffen SS-Grenadier Regiment Rumanische Nr. 1" was thrown in battle at Stettin in March 1945, where it was almost completely destroyed.

The 3rd Regiment was being assembled at Dollersheim, but because of the Soviet approach, the troops of the regiment were used as workforce for the field fortifications.

By the end of the war the idea of the Romanian SS division was abandoned and the only Romanian unit remaining (2nd Regiment) was transformed into an antitank regiment "SS Panzer-Zerstorer Regiment (Rumanische Nr. 2)". Whether it took part in a battle or not it is not known.

See an older thread here:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=44

Waffen-SS in philately...
It is unclear to me if the machine gun is MG-40 or MG-42, as I am not an expert.

Source: Scan of personal stamp, at 600 ppi.

This post has been edited by Florin on January 18, 2005 05:03 am

Attached Image

MG-34

Here is a poor quality photo of it I have taken in the MMN with the old Samsung A-333.

Attached Image

Mr. Dragos,
I'm really sad for the Romanian past ,to read this news.The stain is even spreader.
Was that necessary in March1945 to eliberate Basarabia &Bucovina on 1941?
The German Waffen SS where recruited by volunteers.The Romanian also?

Best regards,
Emilcernauti

Follow the link I gave above. It will provide more details. Most of the troops in the Romanian Waffen SS regiments were former POWs, who thought took the occasion to leave the POW camps. Same situation with the two volunteer divisions organzied by the Soviets.

The machine gun is MG-34.

By the end of the war, a majority of the Waffen-SS, including some of those in foreign units, were not volunteers.

They managed to save our national honour, or part of it. That's all I care.
Many of them died too, and it is reported that Romanians fired some of the last shots of the war against the Red Army, long after the Germany army capitulated and the red flag waved in Berlin.

I think their cause was noble, and reconciliation with the Germans is still possible, and I feel good that relations between Germans and Romanians is no way near as bad as it is between them and Poles, French, and the Czechs.
frue friendship might one day still be possible

This post has been edited by Der Maresal on January 26, 2005 01:55 am

Do you have any actual proof that what you say really happened? Or is it just your wishful thinking?

The 1st Regiment was almosr wiped out in Pomerania and the 2nd Regiment surrendered en masse to the Western Allies. The 3rd Regiment was in fact a work unit. With what to shoot against the Red Army? Shovels?

The troops still fighting on the eastern front after 9 May 1945 were the ones of Vlasov's army.

I do not see how they "saved" national honor by fighting side-by-side with their country's enemy. The vast majority of the soldiers in those units were there because life in the German POW camps wasn't that good. I remember that on the old Dutch helmet forum there was a testimony of a former Romanian member of the Waffen SS. Maybe Dragos still has it. I lost it last year along with all the data on my HDD. They were more concerned of survivng than of "killing Communists".

The old forum can still be visited here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/108085

The Germans were not their country's enemies.
The war after 23 August was waged primarily against the Hungarian troops because there was a desire in the Romanian army to free the lost Territories that the Hungarians occupied. The Germans did not want any Romanian land or territories and so there was no reason to cross the Romanian border then (as we did with Russia in 1941).
Also in 1941 the decision to cross into Russia was a primarily Romanian decision.
The Germans did not ask for it at all.
In 1944, it was the Soviets that pressured the Romanians into fighting the evil fasists. [Our naive government believed all the cheap promisses, and went along[
There was also no reason to pursue the Germans and fight them in Czechoslovakia and there was also no reason for doing a Victory Parade in Vienna.


"Their country's enemy can be interpreted in many ways"
Romania after 23 August became an occupied country. period.

If you're not sure who the true enemy of Romania was, look at the number of defections between 1940-1944, and again between 23 August 1944 and after...
I don't think that many peoples flead to the USSR or to England, USA while we were with the Germans, then the many people including soldiers, generals, pilots that defected and flead the country after the Russians came in.
That should speak for itself about which Romania the people would have rather lived in.

And I still think the romanian ss volunteers who stayed with Germans till the end, managed to save national honour. You don't turn your arms against your former ally. I certainly don't want to have the name "Traitor" stamped to my forehead for generations to come.... and when I think that this coup is responsible for the deaths and capture of many soldiers that were actually defending romania, I feel even more guilty. The wounded luftwaffe airmen that were dragged out of their hospital beds and handed over to the russians, the half a million german troops that were defending the country's borders, many of them being cought by surprise after 23 August, sourrounded and anihilated by the soviets....
This was a stab in the back.

I'm surprised the Germans even wanted to look at us after what happened and after what we did to them. In the Battle for Breslau in 1945, so I read..there were volunteers from Holland, France, Belgium, Romanians, and Ukranian soldiers who fought along side the 12 and 15 yeard olds of the hitleryouth against the red army that was raping it's way to Berlin. Maybe in the process they managed to save some civilians who had time to flee to the west.

"...and as Veterans that live in Vienna confirm it - our military contribution was not particularly great in those cloasing months of ww2, - but what the national army did accomplish was that it saved our country's national honour."

As for the rest you can read right here, but I tought you aleady knew this article...
As this article states,..and a few other sources tell it too..Romanians fought willfully against the red army and fired some of the last shots of the war -

Read for yourself:

Link

Finally I don't think they betrayed their country, more like..their country betrayed them..and quickly went on the winner's side when the war appeared lost...

It takes guts to stand by your principles and beliefs in times like that, (and I admire that),..even if they are communist or not...but I don't like those that change as the wind turns....such as our Royal government did..


There is nothing to be ashamed of regarding them, all countries in Europe had SS volunteers at some point or another, on the countrary we should take pride...

and I think the Veterans are right..




This post has been edited by Der Maresal on January 26, 2005 06:37 pm

For those who have other ideas about the "volunteers", here is a post made by "Tiberius" 10 October 2001 in the old forum: