Ju 87 - the definitive answer?

[leonardus]

I seen many times on this forum the Ju 87 and variants listed to be used by ARR. I known it wasn't at all. In fact ARR did not have this type of airplane during ww2. Please, do a definitive answer.

Leo

Title modified by Dénes

[Victor]

I do not know where you say you have seen so many different variants on this forum. The site is also pretty clear about it.

There was only one variant with two subvariants in use: Ju-87D-3 and Ju-87D-5 with the 3rd Dive Bomber Group from 1943 until 1944, the 6th DIve Bomber Group in 1944 and the 74th Dive Bomber Squadron in 1944-45.

[Dénes]

Just a small addition to Victor's note: at the beginning of the anti-Axis campaign, in Transylvania, on Sept. 7, 1944, the available Stukas were gathered in the so-called Grupul 6/3 bombardament în picaj.
It was only later on, on October 11, that Gr. 8 asalt (Hs 129B) and Gr. 6 picaj (Ju 87D) merged, forming Gr. 8 asalt/picaj, with all serviceable Ju 87Ds being integrated into Esc. 74 picaj, while most of the personnel of Esc. 86 picaj retiring to the homeland.

[C-2]

The Romanian "Stukisti" took off the Ju 87 his diving brakes,the siren and the wheels covers.

[Victor]

QUOTE

The Romanian \"Stukisti\" took off the Ju 87 his diving brakes,the siren and the wheels covers.

The wheel covers were not taken off immediately, as the Grupul 3 Picaj entered action during the summer of 1943 and there was no reason to do it then. There are plenty of photos which show the wheel covers on. When mud appeared, it could gather up under the wheel covers to an extension that it could interfere with the landing procedures. That is why they were taken off.

[dragos]

Why did they took off the driving brake and the siren?

[C-2]

Acording to Mihai Belcin,the ARR pilots didn't like the fact that the electric mecanism could do serious problems if short -cut.
When I asked about the noice,he said that in the cabin you didn't hear it ,but it did some "nerv-dammage"also to friendly ground troops....
The dive -brakes were taken off because it made them"sitting-ducks" for the AA.(for a more accurate explanation I have to see the interwiu).
The wheel covers (like "Victor know all" swaid were taken off because of the mud).BUT NOT FROM THE BIGINNING.
All those modifications were not liked by the Germans,but were soon copied...

[Victor]

QUOTE

The wheel covers (like \"Victor know all\" swaid were taken off because of the mud).BUT NOT FROM THE BIGINNING.

That's what I said.

[dragos]

QUOTE

When I asked about the noice,he said that in the cabin you didn't hear it ,but it did some \"nerv-dammage\"also to friendly ground troops....

I don't think this was a reasonable motive to remove the siren. As the siren was a distinctive mark of this bomber used by the friendly troops, it should raise not lower the morale. How close did they dropped the bombs from the friendly troops?

[C-2]

The main reason for remuving the siren was that the short-circuit could make the bombs to explode.The noice was secondary.Sometimes the Stuka were droping bombs at few hundred meters from friendly troops(and sometimes on them-see Stalingrad).The noice was well heard by bouth sides.
Victor,I don't think the period that the whell covers were taken off ,interst anyone...

[dragos]

QUOTE

The main reason for remuving the siren was that the short-circuit  could make the bombs to explode.

And this wasn't discovered until 1943 ?

[C-2]

Stalingrad was in 1943...
I don't know.Don't forget how unflexible are the Germans...
Belcin said ,the Germ.were outraged when the Romanian did those modifications,but soon adapted them too.
Maybee it was easyer for a non Germ to do those modif.than a German.
I'm very interested if the other users of the Ju87(Bulgaria,Croatia,Hungary,Italy and Slovakia)did also such modif.

[Dénes]

Very few Ju 87D-3s had their sirens still mounted on. Later production D-3s had the siren mount deleted altogether.
The D-5 didn't have the siren mounted at all.

Later on in war, in 1944, the Ju 87Ds were increasingly used for ground attack, or shallow angle dive bombing, rather that the 'classical' 90 degrees (or higher) dive bombing. That was one of the main reasons why the (now unnecessary) diving brakes were taken off.

[Vuk]

I realize that this is a very old thread but I got to ask, were any Ju87D sold to Romania? I´ve always got the impression that all Stukas used by the ARR were on loan from the Luftwaffe.

[Dénes]

There were no Ju 87s directly ordered by Rumania from Germany.
All Stukas were handed over by the Luftwaffe for front use only.

Gen. Dénes