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> Romanian Army & Holocaust Claims
Cantacuzino
Posted: November 12, 2010 11:32 am
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Another one, this time a director that seems very knowledgeable in history



Ye, very knowledgeable like the name of the company that produce the film B)

Pelicula este produsă de Sub-Cult-Ura.
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dragos
Posted: November 12, 2010 01:36 pm
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http://vimeo.com/14797221

The man has a need, to obtain a feedback about Holocaust. He seems frustrated that only the movies of Sergiu Nicolaescu are famous. Note the ridiculousness of the situation, when he appears out of the blue with a bunch of papers and make an implacable statement, and the reaction of interlocutors.
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Imperialist
Posted: November 12, 2010 03:54 pm
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This is the full trailer:

http://vimeo.com/12440960

The subject is worthy of attention, however the author seems so fake and silly in some instances. He even meets Udrea and tells her he is waging an "awareness campaign" about what happened in Odessa.

Maybe he wants to be Romania's Michael Moore?
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dragos
Posted: November 12, 2010 05:28 pm
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Ignoring the fact that he conveniently leaves aside the crimes of the Soviets, he vehiculates some vague numbers (over 300,000 civilians, most of them Jews and Romas) and makes some highly questionable asserts like over 22,000 civilians burned alive in eleven warehouses. I doubt the proofs are something else besides the Wiesel report and some one-sided interviews.

And indeed, their discussions "behind the scene" are very immature.


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Imperialist
Posted: November 13, 2010 08:53 am
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The communist regime, which was in power in Romania from 1945 to 1989, developed a strong nationalistic streak which, according to Holocaust historian Radu Ioanid, "tried to dilute or completely deny the responsibility of Romanians in the slaughter of the Jews, placing all the blame on the Germans."

...

This ambivalence is reflected in the Romanian media coverage of the latest mass-grave discovery. The country's main private TV channels are skeptical, basing their reports on a statement by the chief prosecutor in Iasi, Cornelia Prisacaru, who said, "At this moment we don't know if these are civilian or military bodies. Or could they be Russian or German soldiers? The front line was in that area during World War II. We can't confirm that they are Jews." But such comments make no sense to the investigators who found so many civilian items in the grave — or to Vasile Enache, who still remembers being dragged off to the killing ground on the assumption that he was a Jew.


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...l#ixzz159P9tAQ3

Looking at the map the forest is some 7-10 km from today's border with Rep. of Moldova. When in WWII was a frontline running through there?
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Victor
Posted: November 13, 2010 10:06 am
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The frontline in the summer of 1944 passed North of Iasi. It is possible that this is what the prosecutor was referring to.
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Victor
Posted: November 13, 2010 10:27 am
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QUOTE (dragos @ November 12, 2010 07:28 pm)
Ignoring the fact that he conveniently leaves aside the crimes of the Soviets, he vehiculates some vague numbers (over 300,000 civilians, most of them Jews and Romas) and makes some highly questionable asserts like over 22,000 civilians burned alive in eleven warehouses. I doubt the proofs are something else besides the Wiesel report and some one-sided interviews.

And indeed, their discussions "behind the scene" are very immature.

His purpose is not to talk about the crimes committed by Soviets, but about crimes committed by Romanians, something which is truly difficult even after more than half a century passed by. One can see it easily on our forum as well.

In my opinion, even if film may not be too well researched in terms of numbers and events during WW2, the main issue seems to be the general lack of knowledge on the subject or the general unwillingness to accept these events as part of our past. The Communist picture of the peaceful innocent Romanian people is hardwired into the brains of too many unfortunately. It will take time and the forming of new generations for this to change.

Sure, there were not 22,000 burned alive at Odessa. They were apparently around 9,000 civilians (http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...indpost&p=78217), but the first step right now should be to at least acknowledge that they were killed.
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dragos
Posted: November 13, 2010 11:23 am
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Victor, only those ignorant or rabid nationalists refuse to acknowledge that Romanians committed war crimes during WW2.

What I find upsetting is the new wave of gross exaggerations regarding this subject, probably meant to attract attention and gain fame and/or material gains. At the expense of denigrating the Romanian Army while foreigners celebrates their veterans such in Veteran's Day.

I mention the author of documentary left aside the Soviet crimes as he seems to imply the Romanians were the authors of the greatest crimes in WW2 next to Hitler's, and Antonescu is in his "scale" of values on the same level with Hitler (probably more evil than Stalin).

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Dénes
Posted: November 13, 2010 12:34 pm
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QUOTE (dragos @ November 13, 2010 05:23 pm)
the author of documentary left aside the Soviet crimes as he seems to imply the Romanians were the authors of the greatest crimes in WW2 next to Hitler's, and Antonescu is in his "scale" of values on the same level with Hitler (probably more evil than Stalin).

I fully agree with Dragos. There is a clear tendency to highlight the war crimes committed by Germany and his Axis allies, but usually there is no word on the war crimes committed by the Soviets (which were at least at the same magnitude).

Unfortunately (for the sake of the historical truth), the issue of Soviet war crimes is not well understood in the Western society and rarely mentioned. That's why it should be highlighted (without belittling the Axis crimes, of course). This is what I (and we) should do, whenever the war crimes issue pops up.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on November 13, 2010 12:37 pm
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contras
Posted: November 13, 2010 07:22 pm
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Unfortunately (for the sake of the historical truth), the issue of Soviet war crimes is not well understood in the Western society and rarely mentioned. That's why it should be highlighted (without belittling the Axis crimes, of course). This is what I (and we) should do, whenever the war crimes issue pops up.


Agree, here, in some post, somebody put a link to a new documentary about Soviet crimes, is called Soviet story.

http://www.jurnaltv.ro/video/The_Soviet_St...elor_incredibil
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MMM
Posted: November 14, 2010 09:58 am
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Not "new"...
As you can see, this documentary has already been discussed in here; I fail to see the relevance to the topic, though... ;)
In what concerns the Soviet guilt, its admission would mean that the greatest democracies (!) fought criminals (Hitler) along other criminals (Stalin); it seems that not everybody is ready for that...
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Imperialist
Posted: November 16, 2010 11:37 am
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I think the "frontline" theories can be put to rest now:

Children’s skeletons in mass grave in Vulturi Forest

http://www.nineoclock.ro/index.php?issue=4...=20101116-14034
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mabadesc
Posted: November 19, 2010 04:48 pm
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Victor, only those ignorant or rabid nationalists refuse to acknowledge that Romanians committed war crimes during WW2.

What I find upsetting is the new wave of gross exaggerations regarding this subject, probably meant to attract attention and gain fame and/or material gains. At the expense of denigrating the Romanian Army while foreigners celebrates their veterans such in Veteran's Day.

I mention the author of documentary left aside the Soviet crimes as he seems to imply the Romanians were the authors of the greatest crimes in WW2 next to Hitler's, and Antonescu is in his "scale" of values on the same level with Hitler (probably more evil than Stalin).



Fully agree with Dragos. Well said.

Also, if we expand the discussion beyond Holocaust and into War Crimes as a general category, you will find that virtually all WWII-participating countries committed war crimes, to greatly different extents and at different magnitudes, obviously.
However, while Germany's war crimes have been rightfully condemned, described and documented, war crimes commited by the Soviet Union are barely mentioned (I am speaking of war crimes in general - killing of civilians, wrongful treatment of POW, infringement of Geneva Convention, etc).

Also, Western Allied war crimes, though undoubtedly minuscule in comparison to those committed by Germany and the Soviet Union, did occur in isolated incidents.
However, you will find no mention of these in practically any publication. And yet some American and English officers did get a little trigger-happy on several occasions.

Nobody is denying that war crimes (holocaust-related or not) unfortunately did happen on the Romanian side, but it is not fair to exaggerate them and jump to conclusions while ommitting war crimes committed by other countries (Allied or Axis).

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MMM
Posted: November 27, 2010 07:22 am
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The Russians finally admit their (Stalin's) guilt (in Romanian):
Katyn
... and in English:
Katyn

This post has been edited by MMM on November 27, 2010 07:24 am
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MMM
  Posted: September 29, 2011 04:02 pm
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QUOTE (contras @ November 13, 2010 10:22 pm)
Agree, here, in some post, somebody put a link to a new documentary about Soviet crimes, is called Soviet story.

http://www.jurnaltv.ro/video/The_Soviet_St...elor_incredibil

Finally the National Television got wind about it: tonight on TVR1:
Soviet Story on TVR1
It's never too late, but is it linked to all the Wiki-licki stuff on Russia?

This post has been edited by MMM on September 29, 2011 04:02 pm
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