Beating the Romanian aviation on 22.06.41?, provocative hypothesis!

OT here. Can you share with us the names of those Rumanian I.A.R. 80 pilots with dates/locations who actually shot down Mustangs?

Thanks,

Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on July 29, 2014 01:02 pm

Comments do not relate to the merits of the topic. There's nothing to discuss.

BTW

During the war in Eastern Afryze (AOI) Italian Fiat CR.32's pilots of 410 and 411 Squadrligia shot down 3 Hurricane Mk I and at least 9 Bristol Blenheim Mk I and Mk IV F 1940-1941 plus other planes SAAF and RAF. It is only confirmed victories (planes total destroyed or heavy damaged), not any empty claims.

This only means that they were at the right time, in the right place with a completely obsolete fighter. The had lucky day and enemy had not. Such is a war.

mw

OT here. Can you share with us the names of those Rumanian I.A.R. 80 pilots with dates/locations who actually shot down Mustangs?

Thanks,

Dénes

@ Denes: Cpt Petre Constantinescu himself shuts down with his IAR 81, a Mustang on 23 june 1944. (few km north from Afumati, near Bucharest). He was attacked by three P 51.

This post has been edited by Vranceanu on July 29, 2014 06:30 pm

OT here. Can you share with us the names of those Rumanian I.A.R. 80 pilots with dates/locations who actually shot down Mustangs?

Thanks,

Dénes

@ Denes: Cpt Petre Constantinescu himself shuts down with his IAR 81, a Mustang on 23 june 1944. (few km north from Afumati, near Bucharest). He was attacked by three P 51.

His claim was not officially confirmed (no witness), so it's a probable/unconfirmed victory.

Gen. Dénes

I don't know but I don't think he lied. He tell this in his memoires. The Mustang was shout down and exploded on the soil, so I think the fact could be verified.

This post has been edited by Vranceanu on July 31, 2014 12:53 am

According to Dan Antoniu's book "Vantorul IAR-80 Istoria Unui Erou Necunoscut", Cpt.Av. Constantinescu Petre was credited with one probable B-17 on 23 June 1944.
In as far as I know, no I.A.R.80/81 ever shot down a Mustang - they fought each other, and some I.A.R.81-C hit the Mustangs, but they never succeeded in brining down any Mustangs.
Romanians managed to shoot down Mustangs only while flying the Bf 109 G-6.
Radu

I found this information in Petre Constantinescu 's memoires, "Oglinda cerului patriei in anii de foc. 1943 - 1944". He tell with details how he was attacked by three Mustangs, and he manage to shut down a Mustang, the 2 others dissapeard when a second IAR 81 come there. The P 51 go down and exploded on the soil, few km north of Afumati. Maybe this victory is not officialy confirmed, but I trust him.

PS. "Oglinda cerului patriei in anii de foc" was not published (printed), as I know, but you can find it online. I published few fragments of it in my book 'Dan Vizanty. Destinul unui pilot de vanatoare".

This post has been edited by Vranceanu on July 31, 2014 01:58 pm

in the movie "Blue Max" there is a famous line: "Unconfirmed by army means unconfirmed."
His claim was not confirmed (or ever recoded) by the army.
Radu

... because the Bf 109 G-6 had in its nose the 30 mm cannon.

If you mean the engine-mounted MK 108 30 mm cannon, then no, no Romanian Bf 109 was ever fitted with such cannon. Germany never supplied such planes/weapons to Romania and I never heard of any Bf 109 fitted with such weapons captured around late-August 1944
All Romanian Bf 109 G were fitted with the standard engine-mounted MG 151/20. The Bf 109 had a powerful engine and higher speed and could keep up with the Mustang.
Radu

If you mean the engine-mounted MK 108 30 mm cannon, then no, no Romanian Bf 109 was ever fitted with such cannon. Germany never supplied such planes/weapons to Romania ..................
Radu

Well, I am honestly surprised (meaning I did not know this).
Since early 1944 we were a front line country against Soviet Union, our aviation was defending alongside Luftwaffe the Romanian oil industry that was one of the most important assets of the Größe Deutsches Reich, hundreds of thousands of Romanian soldiers died for the Axis, and still we were not considered worthy to get the 30mm cannons in the Romanian Me-109's.
This was not an item scarce like the airplane engines or armored vehicles, so I think it was a paradox: Germany needed for Romania to be strong to keep the defensive line, but in the same time she was not willing to strengthen the Romanian army too much, for fears that became reality after August 23rd.

This is OOT... The MK 108 was not necessairily a "better" weapon than the MG 151/20. The MK 108 had a lower rate of fire, half of that of MG 151/20 and because the ammunition was larger/heavier, less could be carried on board. It also had a low muzzle velocity which means that the cannon had to be fired from a closer range.
The MK 108 was very effective when attacking bomber formations but poor in dogfights. The MG 151/20 was very effective in dogfights as well as attacking bombers, it was a much more versatile weapon.
Radu

All above posts do not correspond to the main topic, a big pity. BTW MK 108 did not fight on 22.06.41 at all, it was later. Mustang too, as IAR-81C

Regards,
mw

If you will look into other topics, you will note that is not that unusual, and if the subjects do not derail a lot from the original topic, some deviations were accepted.
"mirekw", if we will stick tightly to your original subject, this topic will end due to lack of interest and lack of new comments.

This post has been edited by Florin on August 05, 2014 05:05 pm