VZ-24 question

Hello,

Could anyone provide some information regarding a Romanian VZ 24 (ZB). I purchased one recently, but I am not entirely certain about its history. There is no year or crest on the receiver. The only marks are the serial number (UR21XXX), the CM mark (which I was told was placed on imports accepted by Romania), and the manufacturer's marks: Zbrojovka Brno, A.S. V.Z.24. The claim made by the dealer was that the crest was scrubbed by the Romanians in 1947. That this happened makes sense, of course. The claim that this rifle was rearsenaled by the Russians does not. The mettal shows some wear, but it has clearly been reblued, and all parts electropencilled to match the receiver. The handguard seems original, but the stock looks new and appears to be made from a different wood. Intrestingly, the stock has a tiny cartouche, which resembles the emblem on the slovak flag (double cross atop three hills). Furthermore, I cannot identify the origin of the sling, which incidentally, does not seem to go with the VZ 24. My main question is, who rearsenalled this rifle? Was it really the Russians? If so, how would they have acquired it after 1947? How come the stock is new but not the handguard? I look forward to hearing input on the history of VZ 24's. Thanks.

Hi!

I also have a Romanian VZ24. I found a site who has an article about Romanian rifles. Here is the adress: http://www.conknet.com/mrj/Rumania/RumRifles.htm

I haven't been on this site for a while, so I don't know if it's still on-line. But I have printed the article, I just have to find it :question: I hope this helps you!!!!!!

I guess that the reds could acquire any Romanian weapon after the war very simply: they just toke it. After WW2 Romania, and other European countryes, was under soviet influence the rest , I think, is easy to think about.

Hi, Serban:

This may not be a lot of help in identifying your VZ.24, but here goes:

Checking my copy of J. Walter's "Rifles of the World" he indicates that Romanian VZ.24s would have been marked with the cypher of Michael I or Carol II. If these had survived through the war, I have no doubt that they would have been "scrubbed" as many of the Tsarist M.91 Mosin- Nagants were after the Soviet Revolution.

Have you considered that it might be of Yugoslav origin? The VZ.24 was widely marketed and used by a number of countries in south- eastern Europe. Quite a number of VZ.24s or 24/47s have become available in the U.S from former Yugoslav republics. Given that the stock bears a Croatian- appearing cartouche, is there a chance that it might be of Croatian origin? The VZ.24/47 that I have bears no date, but does have a prominent Yugoslav crest over the chamber; possibly a Yugoslav crest might have been removed for political reasons.

Lots of questions-- not a lot of answers.

Diego

P.S. What does the sling look like? The California dealer from whom I acquired my rifle also provided an accessory package that included a bayonet, scabbard, frog, and sling. The sling was a light grey colored nylon (?) with cast aluminum hardware-- not very attractive, but practical; obviously post- WWII given the artificial fiber. Bayonet was unsharpened and looked newly- blued.

D.

P.P.S. Looking at a copy of the N.R.A. publication "Mauser Rifles" I noticed the typical Czechoslovak crest on the VZ.24-- a lion rampant with a shield bearing a "Croatian" cross on three "hills". Maybe the stock cartouche indicates Czechoslovak issue.

D.

This post has been edited by Diego on September 21, 2004 03:58 am

Some details of a Romanian VZ24 appear on a site mentioned in the topic Carol II crest by Québec.

Serban
I collect military rilfes too. I have some Mosen Nagants and other types.
Your VZ-24 that you describe. Is defiantly a Romanian VZ-24. The serial number of UR21XXX would inticate that it is. The R in the prefix of the serial are Romanian contract rifles made at Brno.

In regards to who rearsenaled its very likely was the Russians.

In regards to your stock and the cartouche. These are just some of my own ideas here. It could be like what has been said it could have been issued to Croatia. I think how it could have ended up with them is this. I know for a fact that your rife with that serial number is a Romanian contract rifle. These rifles where made under a contract for so many rifles to be made for Romania. I know CZ had to supply Romania with so many rifles per month. So they would make a bunch and stock pile them. Then when they had to ship them to Romanian that month they whould pull them from storage. So my guess how your rifle could have ended up in Croatia is. Maybe it was a late war made rifle and it was one of many left in the storage at the factory. And then it was shiped to Croatia.

The other possabilty is that when this rifle was rearsenaled. That stock that was fitted to the rifle. Maybe it was a better stock than what was on the gun. And insted of makeing or useing a newly made stock. They had that stock laying around in the rearsenaling plant. And someone just grabed that stock and put it on the rilfe.
I also think that most of the rearsenaling was done in Romania under the supervison of the Russians. So I dont think your VZ-24 went to Russia to be rearsenaled.

The sling thats anyones guess sometimes when these guns are inported. There slings and other stuff gets so mixed up. So who knows what kind of sling you ended up getting.

Anyone have any ideas on this one? Have an opportunity to purchase it.

DESCRIPTION: War time production Czechoslovak vz.1924 Mauser short rifle made for the Romanian army. The rifle is a part of the third and final Romanian contract for vz.24 rifles. Both sides of the receiver ring display Romanian armory mark, "CM" (in the circle). The rifle was manufactured by CZ factory in Brno, Czechoslovakia in 1940, as indicated by markings on the receiver. The receiver rail shows following markings, "CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A.S. BRNO, VZ.24". Mismatched serial numbers (different serial numbers are stamped on receiver, stock, bolt and on the magazine floor plate; there are no serial numbers stamped on all other parts of the rifle, which is correct for this model). The right side of the buttstock has a steel regimental disc inlaid in the wood, with no markings. Ramp and leaf rear sight calibrated from 300 to 2000 meter. Complete with the cleaning rod and leather sling. Very high quality of manufacturing! The rifle comes also with a very nice Czechoslovak vz.24 bayonet. The latter displays post-war Czechoslovak army property markings on the scabbard, "E3, Rampant Lion, 46". CONDITION: Fine+. Metal has about 95-96% of blue finish on metal. Bore is in excellent condition with strong and shiny rifling. Strong action. Mechanically, the rifle is in excellent condition. All the internal parts of the rifle are in excellent condition, with no visible wear. Stock is solid with some handling marks, minor scratches and light dings. No cracks in the wood. Original finish on the wood. All the markings and numbers are clearly visible on the metal and wood. Small import markings are stamped on the barrel, near the muzzle. The bayonet is in excellent condition. Nice example of Romanian contract vz.1924 short rifle! Serial# RR 19XX.

I've also found this one for sale and looks okay to me.

Romanian VZ24 Mauser

I'm no expert in Vz-24 rifles but they look/sound ok although the stock on the second one seems to have been refinished also I think that front sight cover is missing (hard to tell from those pictures).

Second one most likely rearsenaled but for the price and difficulty not that bad. Make sure to check your emails since I did hear from the person you asked about in FL.

the sight cover is missing on most WWII guns. I have had them for my k98 but they are infamous for popping off in the woods. Still the rifle is available and haven't been able to find that many Romanian mausers here but have heard on them in Alaska!

I have owned several VZ's over the years and have done some looking around in books and the internet. The cartouche on the stock sounds like a Slovakian acceptance mark they used on both bayonets and rifles.

As far as Russians refurbing Vz24 I don't belive it. Most of the rifles the russians refurbed, they marked as such either with thier own markings or grinding out acceptance marks. I have a Mosin that has their refurb mark stamped on the stock and receiver. It is a square with a line running diagonally from one corner to another.

Your best bet is find Mauser Military Rifles of the World Third edition writtne by Robert Ball. Check out the Romanian, Slovakian and Czechoslovakian sections.

GunBear

vz24 with King Michael cypher

vz24 with King Carol 2 cypher

presentation of the vz.24 Romanian contract:
english: https://youtu.be/DNgXptp01zM
romanian: https://youtu.be/sxPs4Dbzrtg