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> Viktor Suvorov about Jukov
guina
Posted: June 20, 2013 11:37 am
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MMM, which of the 11 editions did you read,because they are quite diferent ?
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MMM
Posted: June 20, 2013 05:51 pm
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QUOTE (guina @ June 20, 2013 02:37 pm)
MMM, which of the 11 editions did you read,because they are quite diferent ?

Well, now I know that, but back then I didn't!
Let me check what is available in the online database - 16 years ago there were only charts... the edition translated in Ro. in 1970... whichever one was that... :(
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Florin
Posted: June 22, 2013 05:49 am
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Zhukov / Jukov was lucky to be a general of a huge country.
A huge country (Soviet Union, China, The United States) can afford to swallow rows of defeats and strings of disaster, and still stay afloat.
That's a luxury a small country cannot afford.

This post has been edited by Florin on June 22, 2013 05:50 am
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MMM
Posted: June 22, 2013 08:38 am
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QUOTE (Florin @ June 22, 2013 08:49 am)
Zhukov / Jukov was lucky to be a general of a huge country.
A huge country (Soviet Union, China, The United States) can afford to swallow rows of defeats and strings of disaster, and still stay afloat.
That's a luxury a small country cannot afford.

However, it is interesting that he didn't "pay" for the defeats... unlike many other generals in the Red Army (or Wehrmacht, as well). He seems to have been favoured by Stalin, for what reason we do NOT know!
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dragos
Posted: June 22, 2013 11:26 am
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Considering the "achievements" of other generals, why wouldn't Stalin be confident in Jukov ?
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MMM
Posted: June 22, 2013 03:07 pm
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Because he was Chief of the General Staff at the moment of the German invasion? Any way we put it - either he was planning defense and failed, either he was planning tp attack and was "outrunned", he was one of the main factors of decision, therefore he was liable to be "charged".
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Florin
Posted: June 24, 2013 04:19 am
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QUOTE (dragos @ June 22, 2013 06:26 am)
Considering the "achievements" of other generals, why wouldn't Stalin be confident in Jukov ?

After the success of Operation Bagration beyond the wildest hopes of Stavka, Konstantin Rokossovsky also got in the good graces of Stalin, and was accepted into his inner circle. From that moment, Rokossovsky was one of the 2 generals addressed by Stalin with their first name. (Jukov was not the other one ...)
Before of that, Rokossovsky was himself a political prisoner.
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MMM
Posted: June 24, 2013 03:05 pm
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Yes, that is known - from Suvorov and before that. However, Bagration came in 1944, whereas Jukov's "blunders" were in 1941 and 1942. Did Stalin really need Jukov that much?
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PaulC
Posted: August 12, 2013 06:40 pm
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QUOTE (Imperialist @ June 12, 2013 11:03 pm)
Suvorov's theory/book(s) is problematic and open to a lot of criticism.

At any rate his books are not part of the historiographical "mainstream". And that's why I'm puzzled that Polirom publishes so many of them. Because they usually have nice collections of academically-top-notch mainstream books on international relations, history, political science. They usually don't promote "exotic" theories and authors. Publishing Suvorov on such a scale might give people the impression that his theory is perfectly academic. I've even seen his books part of the syllabus at a faculty in Bucharest. And they were not included as "let's debate this theory" or "in other developments, here's a different take on these events". No, they were taken as truth.

In all the academic books on ww2 published in the west you will not find as much valuable information as what Suvorov published in a dozen books. Fortunately, we're still young enough to live the day the history books will be overwritten.

In the light of the evidence unearthed in the past 20 years and the public admission by Soviet/Russian generals about the "miscalculation" of June 1941, only a bonehead could claim the old version still holds. There is only one version which, as a scientific theory, is strengthened by new discoveries, unlike the old mantra which is continuously weakened.

And you know who will overturn it ? Russian amateur historians. What's being published now by authors like Solonin will blow away the crap the world has been taught for the last 60 years. Suvorov did a small crack in the dam and water is pouring furiously out. It's only a matter of time before the dam will collapse.
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