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> crash site WW2, trying to gather information
Cantacuzino
Posted: October 22, 2012 04:47 pm
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regarding AA bateries; I really don't know for sure, that's why I asked...I've only found so far just one aerial picture of Gaesti from ww2, showing in bold the train station and a wide area of warehouses nearby; it is also shown in picture that is a linking point betwen Pitesti and Bucuresti via Titu.


If there was no important target for sure there were no AA battery ( mayby only AA train).
Anyway the B-24 from Vacaresti crashed due to fighters attack so no more reason to serch the AA guns :)
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luchesse5508
  Posted: October 23, 2012 08:38 am
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Vacareasca forest is curently owned by Comuna Dragodana, but untill ww2 it was owned by Comuna Raciu -5 km SE of Vacaresti; (I have in my collection an certificate of appropriation of ww1 veterans from '43 :unsure:), it is there said that Vacareasca is owned by Comuna Raciu
-The area were I've heard that the airplane crashed is 8 km SSE of Vacaresti.-

Regarding AA train, I think that this version is quite plausible...in many stories AA shooting did not came from the exact same place (btw: wich army used this kind of ammunition :
click here!

click here!

click here!

click here! )
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Cantacuzino
Posted: October 23, 2012 10:38 am
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Luchesse I found another B-24 crashed in the area. This time was shot down by AA from Targoviste ( Razvad -AA bunker from the hill ? ) on 15 july 44. All crew saved by chute and the plane crashed into the ground near Frasimal ( coordinates 44 50' and 25 20') probably misspelled name of FrasinDeal or FrasinVale

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on October 23, 2012 10:38 am
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Cantacuzino
Posted: October 23, 2012 11:43 am
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Also found more info for the B-24 crashed near Vacaresti.

Waist gunner Sgt. Maurice Kelly died of wounds and was buried in Vacaresti cemetery The other waist gunner Sgt. Arch Eakins died of wounds next day at Targoviste hospital.

Here is the story from 2nd Lt Ken Barmore ( Co-Pilot ) diary.

MAY 5, 1944

At 1420 we were to bomb the marshalling yards at Ploesti, Romania. We were flying ďDevilís Duchess.Ē As we turned from the IP onto the bombing run the anti aircraft fire over the target looked like a huge rain cloud and the planes ahead of us were barely visible going through it. We got through the flak ok, and dropped our bombs on the target. While rallying to the left I could feel several flak hits. I had just called each member of the crew and there were no hits then, but I knew we were in trouble now. Paul Krueger gave me the controls, rang the emergency alarm bell, the signal to bail out, and was out of his seat fast. His oxygen had given out and he went to the radio table to get oxygen. After I took over I knew for sure that we would not get home. I lost my oxygen about then and pulled my mask off. As soon as the alarm bell rang, Leon Stephens bailed out followed by Stauffer and Hawkins. Looking up I could see our group leaving us behind. We went into a spiral and down. The top turret was hit and Charlie Joines came out with blood all over his face and hands. I got out of my seat and cleaned some blood from his face and hands, and found that he was ok-only small wounds from the glass that put out a lot of blood. Lyle Clark came up to the flight deck about then and told me that there had been a bad hit in the waist and he needed help back there. We had feathered #4 and #2 and #3 about done, and the interphone, oxygen, and hydraulics gone and the plane was impossible to control. Paul Krueger went up front and out the nose wheel. Clark and Joines went through the bomb bay and out the camera hatch. I followed them but I got stuck between the bomb racks and couldnít move front or backwards. I could hear the wind howling and the bomb bays were being soaked in hydraulic fluid and gasoline. I was being watched over because I broke loose and went into the waist. I had a seat pack chute in and there wasnít enough room to squeeze through. When I got back in a B-24 again I tried to go through the bomb bays with the seat pack on and it was impossible. When I reached the waist George McDonald was working over Eakins. He got him to the camera hatch and got him out and I told him to get out too. Eakins and Kelly were both hit very badly from the hip area on down, and unable to move. I got Kellyís chute on and asked him if he could just pull the release if I pushed him out the hatch. The ground looked awfully close when I went out, so I pulled the ripcord as soon as I felt the wind hit my face. When the chute opened the plane was on fire on the ground and I was certain that I would land in the fire, but luckily landed close but not in. As I got out of my chute I saw Kelly land about 150 feet from me. Then I saw McDonald coming down behind some trees. I was the last one out and probably the first on the ground. I went right to Kelly. He was lying just as he landed. He had nothing much left from his upper legs on down, but seemed to suffer no pain. I gave him a shot of morphine from the escape kit and tried to make him comfortable. We were surrounded by a large group of farmers, and one of them brought some water for Kelly. There were two Romanian officers there and later two village gendarms took charge of us. McDonald was brought up limping from his jump. We tried to make Kelly more comfortable and got the peasants to bring a wagon for him to bring him to the village. We saw that the people were friendly and I got one to go and bring my chute which we used to try and bandage or at least cover his legs. They lifted Kelly into the wagon and we started off for the village about a mile away. We were taken to the village police station, and they tried to find out where the rest of our crew was. We tried to make them understand that we had no idea as they had bailed out some time before we were able to get out. We tried to get them to understand that we wanted to get medical attention for Kelly but from their gestures we saw that it was too far away. Kelly was very ashen, and I didnít see how he could live very long. He talked to us some and didnít seem to be in any pain. We felt very helpless. They took us into a building and spread out our escape kits contents on a table and asked a lot of questions that we didnít understand at all. A man came in and motioned for us to come outside. Kelly was almost gone and he passed away about 1700 with McDonald and I at his side. A very old woman put candles in his hands and blessed him, and cried as though he was her own. They kept us at the jail, and an old man brought us hot milk and bread. Although being hungry, neither of us could eat. We slept on the floor in a room in which there were two beds. About 8 Romanians slept in that room with us-they used the beds-we had a very bad night sleep. The odor was pretty overpowering.
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luchesse5508
Posted: October 23, 2012 01:18 pm
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QUOTE (Cantacuzino @ October 23, 2012 10:38 am)
...near Frasimal ( coordinates 44 50' and 25 20') probably misspelled name of FrasinDeal or FrasinVale

it could be Frasin "La Mal" or "őn Mal" (mal=shore) a local toponym...I don't remember for sure...
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luchesse5508
Posted: October 23, 2012 02:08 pm
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wow! very nice story mr. Cantacuzino...thanks alot!

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Razvad -AA bunker from the hill

I really don't know any bunker in or near Razvad, but I have alot of ex-highschool colleagues...I will "dig" for some intel...
in that area I only know some (pretty well preserved) bunkers in Moreni and surroundings...

This post has been edited by luchesse5508 on October 23, 2012 02:09 pm
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Cantacuzino
Posted: October 23, 2012 03:39 pm
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really don't know any bunker in or near Razvad, but I have alot of ex-highschool colleagues...I will "dig" for some intel...
in that area I only know some (pretty well preserved) bunkers in Moreni and surroundings...


It is for sure I was there with Cipiamon ( a forum member) once. The view from the bunker on the hill are in both sides. One side view to Targoviste and the other side view to Gura Ocnitei oil field.
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transavia
Posted: December 26, 2012 01:28 pm
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In the stories of my grandmother about her brother,used the same word "Ştiuca" to designed him like a Stuka pilot. Was the popular word for designed the JU-87 dive bombers,especially used by the population from the villages.
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luchesse5508
Posted: December 27, 2012 11:17 am
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in the same way Bonaparte was called "buna parte" or Berthelot was called "burtalau" ;)
on-topic: I have foud 2 buttons (I think and hope that they are from an military uniform)
after hollyday's I will upload some pictures; both copper, one is "single piece" can't figure it out what's written on it; and the other one is made out of 2 pieces (bottom and top, folded togeder on the edge) with a nice and stylish "7" on top
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zaherr
Posted: February 27, 2013 05:04 pm
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first of all i want to salute every member of this forum and to thank you all for the awesome info found by me here.
and now something related to the topic:
some years ago i listened a ww2 story told by a old man living in Calugareni, Prahova County. the action takes part in the same village. quote:

"one day i saw in the sky a big plane, flying slow like a buzzard and soon after him two small planes like sparrows, very fast flying and shooting at the big one. in a few seconds the big plane started to burn and something fell from it. it was a bomb who did not explode but fell on a house killing a family. i counted nine or ten parachutes opening from the big plane, the last one being hit by a fragment from the plane and the airman falling to the ground. the rest of the survivors were soon caught by a mob of villagers who were very upset by the killing of that family and wanting revenge. i was a boy but i remember a young air man dressed in a brown leather jacket who was showing a picture with a woman and a child and yelling "Canada, Canada!". no one touched the crew and soon a german vehicle came and took every crew member and left. i do not know what happened with the poor guys"

that was the story, i do not know if it's true but i don't think that the old man had a reason to lie. maybe to exagerate a little bit.
i researched over the net and i didn't find anything about this. also i learned that tidal wave was an all american mission, so it can't be from 1.aug.'43. maybe later when the brittish joined the bombing on romania operations and maybe they had non brittish crews flying in the RAF.
so i ask to you if you can help me with some info, even tell me that i was lied by an old man. :))
thanks everybody.
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Cantacuzino
Posted: February 28, 2013 08:36 am
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"one day i saw in the sky a big plane, flying slow like a buzzard and soon after him two small planes like sparrows, very fast flying and shooting at the big one. in a few seconds the big plane started to burn and something fell from it. it was a bomb who did not explode but fell on a house killing a family. i counted nine or ten parachutes opening from the big plane, the last one being hit by a fragment from the plane and the airman falling to the ground. the rest of the survivors were soon caught by a mob of villagers who were very upset by the killing of that family and wanting revenge. i was a boy but i remember a young air man dressed in a brown leather jacket who was showing a picture with a woman and a child and yelling "Canada, Canada!". no one touched the crew and soon a german vehicle came and took every crew member and left. i do not know what happened with the poor guys"

Because it was during day time we can exclude RAF plane.
Conclusion american plane ( B-24 or B-17) shot down( E-NE Ploesti ) by two fighters. All bailed out and survived except one who was hit by a plane fragment and died.
After a little reserch I found :
On 24 june 1944 a B-24 from 450BG nicknamed "Shoo Shoo Baby" was shot down by enemy fighters near Mizil. One crew member was found dead.
The POW survivors report that villagers were angry.
On that day germans reported two B-24 shot down. Both victories were claimed by SG/2 pilots ( FW 190 unit).

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on February 28, 2013 08:37 am
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Petre
Posted: February 28, 2013 09:01 am
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Radub
Posted: February 28, 2013 09:35 am
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That is a different plane, different unit, different home base.
It happened many times that diferent planes had the same nickname. Just for fun, try to figure out how many planes were nicknamed "Pistol Packin' Mama" (take the rest of the day off ;) ).

Later edit: Petre, I see that after your Wikipedia entry about Shoo Shoo Baby (which I replied to) you added a few other links. Trust me, you may have better luck by listening to Cantacuzino.

Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on February 28, 2013 09:37 am
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zaherr
Posted: February 28, 2013 09:39 am
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@Cantacuzino: you are fenomenal! "after little research" :)) i was researching info about this for a few years now (not extensive search 'tough) . from where you get your info about crash sites and pow declarations? you have books? or via internet? if i'm not too indiscrete, please share to me your sources. i'm eager to know much about the events of ww2 in my area (ploiesti).
two questions remain:
- usaaf had canadians enlisted?
-@petre put a wiki link wich shows "shoo shoo baby" a surviving b17 an national usaaf museum. so i think the b24 that crashed, coincidentaly had the same name?
thanks guys for wonderful info.
later edit: i found this about Shoo Shoo Baby.
http://www.450thbg.com/real/biographies/samms/samms.shtml

This post has been edited by zaherr on February 28, 2013 10:52 am
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Cantacuzino
Posted: February 28, 2013 11:44 am
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@Cantacuzino: you are fenomenal! "after little research" ) i was researching info about this for a few years now (not extensive search 'tough) . from where you get your info about crash sites and pow declarations? you have books? or via internet? i


Ok, you got me. After "little research" in my database, wich cover almost 20 years of deeply research ( books, romanian and US archivs, veterans romanian and US pilots diaries etc)
I compiled a list with all US planes shot down in missions over Romania. It's more easy to track the crash place because I add all the info from all sources ( romanian, german, US) in Excel file and I can filter by MACR, S/N, Unit, crash place etc.
For the year 1944 in the list are 202 B-24, 49 B-17, 43 P-38, 33 P-51.

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