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> Iran has RQ-170 Sentinel
21 inf
  Posted: December 08, 2011 05:35 am
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QUOTE (yugit @ December 07, 2011 11:29 am)
There is an old saying :  those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it upon themselves.

...

And the aditions of famous Murphy> those who learn from history are doomed to make other kind of mistakes! :D

This post has been edited by 21 inf on December 08, 2011 05:36 am
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MMM
Posted: December 08, 2011 09:59 am
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QUOTE (Florin @ December 07, 2011 07:25 pm)
QUOTE (MMM @ December 07, 2011 10:28 am)
........ There's no comparison between them, as there's no comparison between a Fiat 500 and the Soviet Union! (except they're both extinct...  :P )
.......

Fiat sued Soviet Union when S.U. copied one of their cars. I don't say it was Fiat 500, and I don't know what type of Fiat was involved.
Fiat lost the lawsuit. I am assuming the Soviet engineers were smart enough to make some changes to the original. When this happens, it is more difficult to prove your project was stolen.

Hey, I never knew that! I just wanted to underline the fact that we shouldn't compare two things belonging to entirely different cathegories (aka: Internet, the biggest exchange of information tool vs "stars" made by television; I compared a huge country, the biggest and the meanest in history, with a small, cute car, without knowing there was any link between them; if I knew, I'd have chosen Chevrolet Corvette, for example!

This post has been edited by MMM on December 08, 2011 10:00 am
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ANDREAS
Posted: December 08, 2011 05:20 pm
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ANDREAS
Posted: December 08, 2011 05:30 pm
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And not to forget :
"The Covert Intelligence War Against Iran is republished with permission of STRATFOR."

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Radub
Posted: December 08, 2011 05:50 pm
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I agree with Imperialist. Technology was developed to be used. If only humanity thought along the lines of "do not take risks or you may lose", then we would still be climbing trees in Africa and plucking ticks from each other's furs.

All wars and conflicts involve loss of life and equipment. Just because your enemy gets his hands on your equipment, it does not automatically mean that they can copy it.
Germans copied Russian equipment, Russians copied German equipment. Americans copied German equipment.

Russians got their hands on American stealth technology lost over Yugoslavia. OK! And how did that benefit them? They shot down the U-2 in the sixties. Still did not manage to copy it.

Sometimes, copying technology requires more than a pile of mangled debris. Sometimes you need lasers, computers, composite materials, skilled labour and brains.

Radu
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yugit
Posted: December 08, 2011 06:22 pm
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Radu

Is not exactly as you say.When Powers was shot down they didnt
copy the U-2 because it crashed from high altitude and very
little of it was left, however some of the systems left intact were
copied. The LHX helo debries left after Landens raid were shown
by the Pakistanis to Shenyang Aircraft Ind.of China and without doubts
stay tunned for the Chinese copy. The F-117 parts were
sent to Russia by the Serbs and by now their Air Force and
Navy have their own stealth version.

For those of you who try to play down the magnitude of the
loss of the mini B-2 drone UAV please check the attached
photos.

Was captured almost intact,which shows that they brought it
down electronically ( signal interferance / guidance ) or
through an other wise method,therefore I don't agree with your
comments and none of the comments suggesting that it was to be used
and to be lost.....its a highly classified UAV of USN worth lots of millions
of tax payers moneys no matter how you turn the facts, period.

I also believe that there was a Russian involvement in bringing
this bird in this condition down .

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1


http://img38.imageshack.us/content_round.p...wnedusdrone.jpg

Here what the US is saying about it :

Iranian military officials have claimed since Sunday they brought down an intact American spy drone--and now they are giving video tours of what looks to be a drone in apparently decent condition, in what is sure to be another humiliating poke in the eye for U.S. national security agencies.

"On Sunday December 4, the Iranian Army's electronic warfare unit downed the US RQ-170 Sentinel stealth aircraft which was flying over the Iranian city of Kashmar, some 140 miles (225km) from the Afghan border," Iran's Press TV said in its report Thursday.

My opinion: A huge loss for the US intelligence community....and many
heads to roll very soon at the planners and operators sites !

Therefore I repeat my original question, when will the Yanks learn ?
Al

PS: the UAV green color suggesting a radar echo repellent painting
or simply newly delivered from the factory.

This post has been edited by yugit on December 08, 2011 06:53 pm
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Radub
Posted: December 08, 2011 06:52 pm
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QUOTE (yugit @ December 08, 2011 06:22 pm)
Therefore I repeat my original question, when will the Yanks learn ?

Learn what? Do not try of you can lose?
"Fear of Failure" is a recognised psychological problem.
Radu
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yugit
Posted: December 08, 2011 06:55 pm
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To learn from their mistakes and naive approach.....nobody is talking
about fears etc...pse reviewing the beging of my topic
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MMM
Posted: December 08, 2011 07:21 pm
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QUOTE (yugit @ December 07, 2011 07:45 pm)
MMM

China military cooperation with Iran is substantially
less than as in the past, most of it is done with Russia....

Alex

So then the Chinese boasting about Iran and WW3 is just boasting? Might I ask how you know that? ;)
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yugit
Posted: December 08, 2011 07:30 pm
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get a subscription to Aviation Week Space & Technology, its all in there
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Radub
Posted: December 08, 2011 07:36 pm
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Maybe they already learned from this "mistake". :D Radu
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yugit
Posted: December 08, 2011 07:44 pm
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Maybe they did, at the moment is anything " but " learning. Hilary claimed
election fraud in Russia and as such she gave signal to new domestic turmoil
in Russia.....that promted Putin admin. to speed up their plans of deploying
their ICBMS at Kalinigrad and promote Hilary to a nongrata in Russia...some
of their ICBMS will be pointing and be targeting Rumania too ,well
yes the Yanks are definitely learning !...alt joc alt noroc Radu .

This post has been edited by yugit on December 08, 2011 07:53 pm
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Imperialist
Posted: December 08, 2011 08:10 pm
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QUOTE (yugit @ December 08, 2011 06:22 pm)
I don't agree with your
comments and none of the comments suggesting that it was to be used
and to be lost.....its a highly classified UAV of USN worth lots  of millions
of tax payers moneys no matter how you turn the facts, period.

You misunderstood what I said. I didn't say the drone was meant to be used and lost. I said using it entails the risk of losing it.

Here's video of the drone in Iranian hands:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/ir...-drone-1.400377

*note that the US says the drone actually crashed, so what the Iranians are showing may not be it (?)

This post has been edited by Imperialist on December 08, 2011 08:12 pm
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yugit
Posted: December 08, 2011 08:35 pm
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You have a point, but regretfully this UAV must have been brought down
by a warefare unit of the Russians , hard to believe that the
Iranian alone achieved all this.....the UAV shows minor damages
its no fake and the its the Xmas gift of CIA to Iran & Russia...the
reason that the auto destroy sys didn't work it could be well related
to auto pilot guidance sys during normal flight parameters and while
relay signal loss ocurred ...possibly the capture was airborne
and not post a crash landing.

I suspect that the USAF controlling unit station based in Pakistan
which was involved on an earlier incident whereby 20 Pakistani army
personnel were mistakenly killed ,that unit was asked by the
Pakistanis to evacuate the airbase within 5 days ,this could have
seriously affected their combat /logistical readiness . With certainty the
Russians, Pakistanis and Iranians have well coordinated this
event...Iranian alone wouldn't have made it......and it takes more
than one to cook a soup.

This post has been edited by yugit on December 08, 2011 09:42 pm
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Florin
Posted: December 09, 2011 12:30 am
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QUOTE (Radub @ December 08, 2011 12:50 pm)
.....
Sometimes, copying technology requires more than a pile of mangled debris. Sometimes you need lasers, computers, composite materials, skilled labour and brains.

Radu

Most difficult is to reproduce materials: metallic alloys, special ceramics, special plastic, special fuel... With no proper material, you have to design thicker, heavier, you cannot make to function at the temperature you want...
Sometimes without the right material you cannot go to the next step, whatever you try.

I had updated this post to mention that one minute ago I saw the captured plane in one piece, looking in good shape. Shocking! I also thought to be "a pile of mangled debris".
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/iran-rel...-171144210.html

This post has been edited by Florin on December 09, 2011 01:38 am
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