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> Iran has RQ-170 Sentinel
yugit
Posted: December 06, 2011 06:27 pm
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Well..it's again US throwing tax payers hightec RQ-170 a low observable unmanned aircraft system UAV into uncharted teritories, then denying the loss and later on reporting a loss in an area close to where the Iranians claimed the capture.This sounds like a Disney Land scenario to me.

No need mention the past enemy understimation starting with Pearl H. ,the Buldge, Poltawa Affair,Korea Vietnam,Iraq etc caused later on disastrous results. Rather than keep their mouths shut then attack, they conduct a reckless massmedia propaganda. Iran is obtaining SIGINT, COMMINT equipment as well training from the Russians a nation which is prospering from such deals,covered by the Iranian petro dollars revenues at Kharg Island.

Stalin neither Hitler made newspapers advertsing of their
future covert combat doctrines..when will the US finally learn ?


http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

Alex

This post has been edited by yugit on December 06, 2011 06:29 pm
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Florin
Posted: December 07, 2011 02:08 am
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QUOTE (yugit @ December 06, 2011 01:27 pm)
Well..it's again US throwing tax payers hightec RQ-170 a low observable unmanned aircraft system UAV into uncharted teritories, then denying the loss and later on reporting a loss in an area close to where the Iranians claimed the capture..
..................

I will keep my comment strictly on shot down UAV (you had extended the subject into wide-spread...).
You may remember (or you may not) that in the late 1990's the Serbs shot down two American UAV over Yugoslavia, and that was before the bombing of 1999.
The U.S. denied vehemently that they lost anything, and I can see now, almost 20 years later on Military Channel, that yes, they lost those drones to Serbian AA fire.

During the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia, the U.S. denied losing a Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk (Stealth bomber). As I promised to keep my comments to UAV's, you can read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk
(see chapter "Combat Loss")

This post has been edited by Florin on December 07, 2011 02:13 am
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Florin
Posted: December 07, 2011 02:19 am
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Fresh update - no denying any more:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2...rone/51685874/1

So I guess what was left of that UAV will travel to Moskow, like that Lockheed F-117 in 1999.
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yugit
Posted: December 07, 2011 09:29 am
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There is an old saying : those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it upon themselves.

What I was trying to say is that the Americans as a nation ,they were not
egger to learn from their past mistakes and keep doing the same mistakes
all over again,by now the history is repeating upon themselves...in a self
destructive mode.......in the Nuclear and Bin Laden age there's little margin
for learning the history.

The first link you posted depicting the "Predator " though their X-Mas
gift to the Ayatolas was one of the most sophisticated UAV initially
designed for the USN and shapped like a mini B-2 bomber. They try
to play the facts down and claim a wide variety of arguments, though
the most simplest apply......they've lost it.

I am fully aware about the war in Yugoslavia and I remember the facts
you cited. Well the Russians have already a copy of the F-22, the
copy of that drone will sooner or later leave their production lines in
Siberia or Ural.

If Internet, Madona, B.Spears and Mike Jackson would have existed
in WWII at the Yanks side, that war may have lasted much longer.

This post has been edited by yugit on December 07, 2011 09:39 am
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MMM
  Posted: December 07, 2011 03:28 pm
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QUOTE (yugit @ December 07, 2011 12:29 pm)
If Internet, Madona, B.Spears and Mike Jackson would have existed
in WWII at the Yanks side, that war may have lasted much longer.

I don't get it!
If the Internet existed prior to WWII, there might not have been a WWII! Also.it's highly unfair to put the Internet next to B. Spears!!!!!! There's no comparison between them, as there's no comparison between a Fiat 500 and the Soviet Union! (except they're both extinct... :P )
And, as things go, I'd rather say that Beijing has the remains of the UAV rather than Moscow!

This post has been edited by MMM on December 07, 2011 03:29 pm
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Florin
Posted: December 07, 2011 04:16 pm
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QUOTE (yugit @ December 07, 2011 04:29 am)
.....the Americans as a nation ,they were not
egger to learn from their past mistakes and  keep doing the same mistakes
all over again,by now the history is repeating upon themselves...in a self
destructive mode.......

You see, you don't get it. America doesn't make mistakes.
In America a perfect society is thriving in a perfect country. Because everything is perfect, why should they change anything? Because they don't make mistakes, is there anything left to learn? ;)

This post has been edited by Florin on December 07, 2011 04:19 pm
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Florin
Posted: December 07, 2011 04:25 pm
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QUOTE (MMM @ December 07, 2011 10:28 am)
........ There's no comparison between them, as there's no comparison between a Fiat 500 and the Soviet Union! (except they're both extinct...  :P )
.......

Fiat sued Soviet Union when S.U. copied one of their cars. I don't say it was Fiat 500, and I don't know what type of Fiat was involved.
Fiat lost the lawsuit. I am assuming the Soviet engineers were smart enough to make some changes to the original. When this happens, it is more difficult to prove your project was stolen.

This post has been edited by Florin on December 07, 2011 04:26 pm
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yugit
Posted: December 07, 2011 04:45 pm
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Florin

Agreed....u've made the point.

MMM

China military cooperation with Iran is substantially
less than as in the past, most of it is done with Russia....

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Imperialist
Posted: December 07, 2011 06:38 pm
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I don't see what the big deal is. What's the point in developing something you think is too precious to risk using into "uncharted territories"?
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Florin
Posted: December 07, 2011 07:52 pm
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QUOTE (Imperialist @ December 07, 2011 01:38 pm)
I don't see what the big deal is. What's the point in developing something you think is too precious to risk using into "uncharted territories"?

You are right, when you build something you should use it.
However, there were good weapons not used just to prevent being captured. I am giving some examples, but this does not mean I agree with the fact the weapons were not used.

The Browning .50 caliber machine gun, created toward the end of World War I, was not issued to the American troops in Europe upon the concern of being captured by the Germans. The manufacturer had to survive at the brink of bankruptcy for more than 20 years, until they got plenty of orders in WWII.

The Gloster Meteor, the British designed jet fighter, performed some flights in Western Europe in late 1944 and early 1945. The British never dared to venture beyond the front line with Gloster Meteor, and never used it in any aerial fight.
They were concerned to don't lose any to the enemy.

The opposite extreme, also wrong, is to delay vital operations just for the opportunity to use new weapons. The offensive at Kursk was delayed with more than 2 months, losing surprise and allowing the Soviets to build defenses, just to have available the "Ferdinand" and the "Panther".

This post has been edited by Florin on December 07, 2011 08:09 pm
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yugit
Posted: December 07, 2011 08:20 pm
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Florin

Once again you have a point, I hear you !


Imperliast

There are 3 possibilities in here.

A. We are dealing in here with a USAF highly affected by the
budget and personnel shake ups , willing to take any risks
in order to prove their selfsuficiency to D.O.D and swim
with the current as the battle flags are now pointed towards Iran

B. A trick of NSA, CIA or you name it who wanted to trigger
and put at test the low and mid altitude AA defenses
of the Ayaltolas eagger to sacrifice new combat platforms
for such purposes

C. A distracted USAF UAV operator who was not alert on the
Iranian ELINT specialst units,and repeated the mistake
of an other buddy of his 3 weeks ago who killed Pakistani
Army personnel.

Since the US Armed Forces, along with NSA, CIA, NOAA
etc operating satelites which can spot even a dog on street
the need to sacrifice that mini B-2 was really superflous.....
so which of the above applies ?


Alex

This post has been edited by yugit on December 07, 2011 08:30 pm
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Imperialist
Posted: December 07, 2011 09:22 pm
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They didn't "sacrifice" it, they just used it. This wasn't the first time they did, only this time it crashed or the Iranians forced it to crash. Several months ago the US lost parts of a stealth helicopter in the raid on OBL's safe house in Pakistan. Stuff happens when you use stuff.

@Florin

What about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealing_a_Soviet_MiG

:lol:
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ANDREAS
Posted: December 08, 2011 01:02 am
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Florin
Posted: December 08, 2011 01:23 am
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QUOTE (Imperialist @ December 07, 2011 04:22 pm)
........
@Florin

What about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealing_a_Soviet_MiG

:lol:

I knew a little bit about this, and this is a good opportunity to make a comment:
The Muslim leadership of Iraq trusted a Christian to fly the best plane available in that moment for Iraq, and the pilot rewarded their trust by defecting to Israel.
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Florin
Posted: December 08, 2011 01:30 am
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QUOTE (ANDREAS @ December 07, 2011 08:02 pm)
Not entirely connected but...
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20111121-sy...9bf5020e80fc7fa

Interesting comments.
As we could see recently, Turkey is openly attempting to influence the politics in Syria. From all the players involved, only Turkey can afford to do it openly. The others (see the link offered by Andreas) have to do it in the shadows, because otherwise it can turn for the worse.
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