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> Russian-Romanian conflict, in Moldova/Transdniester
Radub
Posted: September 27, 2011 05:16 pm
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Udar, calm down... Smileys mean that It was a "funny".

Imperialist, you say that Romania helped Moldova during the conflict with Transdnestra... Look how well that worked out. :D

I think that the thread is being pushed askew here. The topic was about a "conflict with Russia". The leaked cable quotes Basescu talking about a "conflict with Russia". Moldova, however emotional the subject, is not the main conflict but rather the "opening salvo" of such a conflict. This is like talking incessantly about Poland when discussing WW2. We can get sidettacked into nationalist bravura and Moldova, but that ignores the nub of the issue here: "conflict with Rusia".

So, what do you think Romania can do in the case of a conflict with Russia? And what if they lose the conflict with Russia? Whatever form that "loss" takes...Is that worth it?

Radu
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ANDREAS
Posted: September 27, 2011 07:47 pm
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Imperialist, you say that Romania helped Moldova during the conflict with Transdnestra... Look how well that worked out. biggrin.gif

I read a lot about this conflict, had he chance to talk to Ilie Ilascu himself and one other less known fighter in this conflict, read newspapers and wach TV shows about this conflict... and the answer is -we didn't help them enough because we couldn't technically help them more, the war was lost because they were betrayed by their own men (high command from Chisinau) and their "army" was not prepared to face the professional 14th Army (I mean here not without weapons because actually Moldova had f.i. heavy artillery pieces and MRLS). Please don't laugh about this last statement thinking about the untrained kossaks and transnistrian militiamen that you saw on TV, they were only the troops send for dying, behind them were the professional soldiers and officers of the 14th Army who drive the tanks and personnel carriers, firing the guns, howitzer and mortars and lead the operational plans made by the rebels.


QUOTE
So, what do you think Romania can do in the case of a conflict with Russia? And what if they lose the conflict with Russia? Whatever form that "loss" takes...Is that worth it?

Actually prevent it. I think that an eventual conflict prepared by Russia need at least a free corridor through Ukraine or a military build-up in Transnistria himself (don't be fooled by the stores of ammunition from de 14th Army depots stored to Colbasna, that ammo is mostly old and outdated!). The Russian troops stationed in Transnistria are now too weak to really take part into a offensive action and the Transn. Army alone won't dare to attack (my personal belief!)...
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Radub
Posted: September 27, 2011 07:52 pm
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QUOTE (ANDREAS @ September 27, 2011 07:47 pm)

Actually prevent it.

Bingo! ;)
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MMM
Posted: September 28, 2011 02:49 pm
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I have a question (hope it will prove rhetorical in the long term): will Russia risk a conflict over Trans-Dnestra? <_<
PS: let's make a poll, as the self-entitled analysts we are (care suntem noi)... maybe we'll get invited at Antena 6... :lol:

This post has been edited by MMM on September 28, 2011 02:50 pm
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contras
Posted: October 04, 2011 05:01 pm
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All Wiki cables are about reports of US ambassadors to Washington. There are no any about what Washington responds. In this case, we know what the US ambassador in Romania reports to Washington, but the point is what Washington responded to US ambassador about Basescus question about this kind of conflict.
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MMM
Posted: October 04, 2011 05:54 pm
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Perhaps he didn't respond anything... :huh:
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Radub
Posted: October 04, 2011 06:15 pm
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Basescu did not actually ask any questions. He just "expresed concern". ;)
Radu
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MMM
  Posted: October 05, 2011 10:12 am
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Well, I meant "perhaps the American decidents thought irrelevant the Romanian concerns, thus not worthy of an answer".
Isn't that closer to the truth? :ph34r:
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Radub
Posted: October 05, 2011 01:17 pm
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Which once more brings back the questions I already asked many times before. Why should ANYONE care about Transdnestra? Is THAT worth a conflict?
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MMM
Posted: October 05, 2011 01:46 pm
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Well, I don't care much about it and I wouldn't risk a conflict over a region which was "added" to Bessarabia for unknown reasons by Stalin (actually, my guess is that it was either seen as a compensation for giving away the Southern Bessarabia to Ukraine, or as a means to augment the non-Romanian population, a source of potential conflicts; both worked just fine).
But then, again, I am just a forumist, holding just one vote... ;)
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ionionescu
Posted: October 05, 2011 02:05 pm
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QUOTE (Radub @ October 05, 2011 02:17 pm)
Why should ANYONE care about Transdnestra? Is THAT worth a conflict?
Radu

Personally I am concerned about Transnistria, I have no doubt in my mind: I would volunteer in a hart beat in case of a conflict.
http://www.ziuaveche.ro/international/basa...erna-43716.html

Listen to D-na Raisa Pădureanu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9A3XpT9BBg&feature=related , director adjunct al Liceului "Lucian Blaga" din Tiraspol.
Song text:
”Mereu sunt vinovat că's moldovean
Dar și mai vinovat că sunt român creștin
Și mă'n rudesc cu'n Împărat Traian
Și vreau cu frații mei la Domnul să mă'nchin

Și moșii noștrii și strămoșii
Din timpuri toți au suferit
Au fost bătuți (pierdut războaie) trimiși în țară (deportați)
Dar Neamul nu l-au părăsit”



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ANDREAS
Posted: October 05, 2011 06:24 pm
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[/QUOTE]Personally I am concerned about Transnistria, I have no doubt in my mind: I would volunteer in a hart beat in case of a conflict.[QUOTE]
Hallo ionionescu,
If you really would do what you say here, then you are a notable exception to the rule of Romanian uninvolvement (or apathy if you like)... and you have my sincere respect... I don't want to be understood as encouraging such bellicose initiatives but I am sure as I breath that without such patriotic feelings and actions we would not have existed today as a nation... For those skeptical of such claims I only tell them to watch carefully the smaller neighboring nations : the bulgarians or the hungarians ... what would they do if their fellow people would be subject to persecution as ours in Transnistria... Would they be afraid of a war and do nothing? I don't think so! They are a nation (bulgarian and hungarian) and they will act as one...
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Radub
Posted: October 05, 2011 06:28 pm
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The question is not whether there are enough peopople to get into a fight. I am sure there are plenty. The question is and always was "why?".
Nationalism and songs are just excuses. A war must make political/economic/military sense and Transdenstra simply has nothing going for it. It is the poorest corner of Europe, with no economic advantages and a hostile population. Why would Romania want that?
Raduy
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Imperialist
Posted: October 05, 2011 06:43 pm
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QUOTE (Radub @ October 05, 2011 06:28 pm)
The question is not whether there are enough peopople to get into a fight. I am sure there are plenty. The question is and always was "why?".
Nationalism and songs are just excuses. A war must make political/economic/military sense and Transdenstra simply has nothing going for it. It is the poorest corner of Europe, with no economic advantages and a hostile population. Why would Romania want that?
Raduy

Why do you talk about war? We were talking about offering military aid to one side involved in a conflict. That doesn't mean war. Not necessarily.

And you keep asking the wrong question, over and over again. Yes, Transnistria per se is not worth it, but the issue was whether Romania would/should help Moldova if she is attacked by Transnistrian and/or Russian forces. If you oppose such help for Moldova then say it plainly.

Why should anyone in Romania care about Afghanistan? It makes no sense being there. And yet we're there. So if we thought it's worth being there, how could we stand idle if Moldova needs assistance?
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Radub
Posted: October 05, 2011 07:44 pm
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QUOTE (Imperialist @ October 05, 2011 06:43 pm)

Why do you talk about war? We were talking about offering military aid to one side involved in a conflict. That doesn't mean war. Not necessarily.

Imperialist, you are the only one who keeps talking about conflict and providing Moldova with weapons and specialists. But everyone else is talking about war. I on the other hand, I keep asking "is it worth it?", so actually that implies that I do not particularly want a "war with Russia" - I am merely trying to figure out why others want war by asking why. Surely, you can make a distinction between a question and a statement...

I told you before (on September 26) that I have no problem with the kind of "support" you are proposing. So, you have a supporter in me. Why do you keep challenging me? I am just addressing those people who want bloody war. How about you address those people who demand war too?

But even if "is a conflict with Russia over Moldova/Transdnestra worth it?" is the wrong question as you say, why don't you answer anyway? :blink:
Please do not be shy with the details and explain what has Romania got to win in such a conflict? And what are the chances, in your expert opinion, that Romania will emerge the victor in the case of a conflict with Russia?

Radu

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