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> Romanian claims on Soviet Subs
raevski
Posted: September 14, 2011 03:53 am
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Fruntas
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What Soviet sub are claimed by the Romanian navy / airforce?
Is there a list and dates?

I have a couple of possibles
SHCH204- Dec 41 Regale Ferdinand
M118- Ghilculesu
M31- Marasasti

are these correct? are there more?
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MMM
  Posted: September 14, 2011 10:04 am
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AFAIK, yes, these are correct, but the names of the Romanian ships are "Regele Ferdinand" and "Marasesti"... as well as "Ghiculescu"! See Worldwar2.ro...

This post has been edited by MMM on September 14, 2011 10:06 am
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Petre
Posted: September 14, 2011 05:55 pm
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Different russian sources (web sites) say different things
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sebipatru
Posted: September 14, 2011 06:19 pm
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what websites?
what are they saying?
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Petre
Posted: September 14, 2011 07:20 pm
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Red Fleet Subs lost 1939-44. Black Sea Fleet
http://www.town.ural.ru/ship/dead/dd_ship5.php3

06.1941. «Щ-206», 3 Ro.MTBs, Est Mangalia, or mine
05.11.1941. «М-59», Sulina, mine or R.Ferdinand, ramming
06.12.1941. «Щ-204», Varna area, airplane
01.10.1942. «М-118», Plane Ar-196 + Ghiculescu + Stihi, bay of Jibrieni
17.12.1942. «М-31», «Uj-80» or «Uj-116» («Xanten»), bay of Jibrieni
16.04.1944. «Л-6», Hydroplane Bv-138 + ro.gunboat + «Uj-115» («Rosita»), West Sevastopol

Soviet Navy ships lost WW2 Azov & Black Sea
http://www.navy.su/other/lost/black.htm
М-59, 5 Dec.41, Sulina, ramming R.Ferdinand
М-118, 1 Oct.42, bay of Jibrieni, Plane + Ghiculescu + Stihi
М-31, 17 Dec.42, bay of Jibrieni, Uj 80 or «Xanten»
Щ-204, 6 Dec.41, Est Varna, bulgarian «Belomorets» and «Tcernomorets» (trying to land a diversionary group)

This post has been edited by Petre on September 14, 2011 07:22 pm
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raevski
Posted: September 15, 2011 04:23 am
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Does the Romanian airforce ever claim sinking enemy vessels?
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Victor
Posted: September 15, 2011 05:58 am
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Miroslav Morozov
Posted: December 27, 2011 05:13 pm
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QUOTE (Petre @ September 14, 2011 07:20 pm)
05.11.1941. «М-59», Sulina, mine or R.Ferdinand, ramming
06.12.1941. «Щ-204», Varna area, airplane
01.10.1942. «М-118», Plane Ar-196 + Ghiculescu + Stihi, bay of Jibrieni
17.12.1942. «М-31», «Uj-80» or «Uj-116» («Xanten»), bay of Jibrieni
16.04.1944. «Л-6», Hydroplane Bv-138 + ro.gunboat + «Uj-115» («Rosita»), West Sevastopol

Soviet Navy ships lost WW2 Azov & Black Sea
http://www.navy.su/other/lost/black.htm
М-59, 5 Dec.41, Sulina, ramming R.Ferdinand
М-118, 1 Oct.42, bay of Jibrieni, Plane + Ghiculescu + Stihi
М-31, 17 Dec.42, bay of Jibrieni, Uj 80 or «Xanten»
Щ-204, 6 Dec.41, Est Varna, bulgarian «Belomorets» and «Tcernomorets» (trying to land a diversionary group)

M-59 lost off Sulina between October 26th and November 8th 1941, so no chanse for Ferdinand ramming. The correct reason - a Romanian mine off Sulina.

Bulgarian PC Belomorets and Charnomorets didn't make any attack December 6th off Varna, because they stayed in harour without engins. Tha sub was lost on Romanian mine.

M-118 was lost between October 1st and October 3rd 1942, but probably on mine, not after Ghiculescu attack. Russian diver researched all region of Salsburg sinking (Ghiculescu attacked the sub, which torpedoed that ship) but found nothing. The wreck of Salsburg was raised after the war - no another wreck was found in that area.

M-31 was sunk by d/c of Xanten and some FR-boats of Jibrieni. Uj-80 never existed.

L-6 probably sunk April 16th after BV-138 attack. Earlier she was damaged by d/c of UJ-115 Rosita. No Romanian gunboat in that convoy - only SS Kassa, Tisza, Lola, Uj-115, R-35, R-203.
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yugit
Posted: December 28, 2011 12:44 pm
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Здравствуйте, Miroslaw!

As you may recollect I was in touch with you regarding
the books you wrote on чф вмф ( Torpedos) by email.

Regarding the M-59 can you cite any other sources
of information except that Russian website ? According
my sources also from Russia, it was rammed by Ferdinand.

Also I have an other question to you regarding Kapitan
Александр Иванович Маринеско related to W.Gustloff...
was the Podvodnia Lotka which sunk Gustloff of the M-19
series...? this because in Germany they made a movie
about it and either the movie has wrong facts or the facts
are wrong .

Thanks
Alex K

This post has been edited by yugit on December 28, 2011 01:48 pm
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Miroslav Morozov
Posted: December 28, 2011 05:25 pm
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QUOTE (yugit @ December 28, 2011 12:44 pm)
Regarding the M-59 can you cite any other sources
of information except that Russian website ? According
my sources also from Russia, it was rammed by Ferdinand.

Also I have an other question to you regarding Kapitan
Александр Иванович Маринеско related to W.Gustloff...
was the Podvodnia Lotka which sunk Gustloff of the M-19
series...? this because in Germany they made a movie
about it and either the movie has wrong facts or the facts
are wrong .


Hello, Alex!

All my knowledge based not on website, but on the soviet and German documents. If you saw my book, you could find a lot of translated documents and scheme from different docs.
BTW: Ferdinand didn't ram any subs on December 5th, 1941. I'm not sure that she went at sea at all. Accordingly KTB Deutschen marinemission in Romania on that day sailed on 13.00 from Constanta to Sulina only R. Maria and Marasesti. They had no contact with subs.
BTW: Under the begging the siege of Sevastopol in the first days of November, 1941 all soviets M-type subs of 2nd Brigade firstly were transferred to Caucasus base and a small grou pe of them returned in Sebastopol only in the middle of Decebmer.

I don't know what mean the sub "M-19 series"? The biggest number of prewar series was XV and during the war in 1943 in the USSR was adopted the new system with number of series used three figures.
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yugit
Posted: December 28, 2011 06:37 pm
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Hello Miroslaw

Captain 3rd rank Alexander Marinescu was the captain of the S13 which sunk
the Gustloff, the most controversial but also most famous captain of the sub
fleet of Soviet Navy in WWII. The S-13 ( my mistake not S-19) was a modern
type sub . As of today many things about Marinescu and the sinking of Gustloff
remain unknown.

Recommend you and rest of the Naval members of this forum to buy this
DVD about Marinescu and Gustloff. His father was in WWI a Rumanian sailor
while himself was born in Odessa.


http://www.amazon.de/Die-Gustloff-DVDs-Kai...25097302&sr=8-1

Best Regards
Alex

This post has been edited by yugit on December 28, 2011 06:47 pm
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Petre
Posted: December 28, 2011 08:05 pm
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QUOTE (yugit @ December 28, 2011 06:37 pm)
His father was in WWI a Rumanian sailor while himself was born in Odessa.

Born 1913 in Odessa, Alexandr Marinesko was the son of a Romanian sailor from Galazi(?) and an Ukrainian woman. His father had fled to Russia after beating(?!) an officer and settled in Odessa, changing the last letter "u" of his name to "o".
So, in WW1 his father was not in Romania.
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Dénes
Posted: December 29, 2011 08:13 am
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QUOTE (yugit @ December 29, 2011 12:37 am)
Recommend you and rest of the Naval members of this forum to buy this DVD about Marinescu and Gustloff.

30 people commented the DVD on amazon.de and the average rate is 2 out of 5. I am wondering why the low rating? What didn't they like in the movie?

Gen. Dénes
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muggs
Posted: December 29, 2011 09:45 am
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Most of them complain that the love story in the movie overlaps the actual drama of the loss of so many people, others complain that it's not using the actual facts as a basis, others say that it's trying to be a Titanic copycat and so on
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yugit
Posted: December 29, 2011 02:15 pm
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In my humble opinion the dislike rate is mostly caused
by the new generation who considered Marinescus action
as a war crime, by torpedoing a ship which in their views
was loaded with inocent civilians. Some say that the
movie is poorely dramatized and with poor casting.

Some fail to understand what was done to the
Russians prior that event and during the entire war and
yet overseeing its cargo and the many troops aboard including
the SS which any other Allied sub commander would have
considered Gustloff without any hesitation as a legit target.

Not understandable to me is the failure or interest of
the Russians and Germans to conduct a post WWII
board of inquiry and reveal the full truth to the
public.

Fact is that Marinescu achieved his glory long after
his death, a man who was convicted of theft and
died poor at relatively young age. Attached photos
from Soviet Naval History in WWII publ.1969


http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfOvR3vKqZI

This post has been edited by yugit on December 29, 2011 03:04 pm
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