ARR photos on Ebay

The ARR markings seem identical to me.

As for the camouflage colours, I would say exactly the opposite: the original dark green overall was overpainted with lighter colour squiggles (on wings only), including the earlier wing bands, too.

Gen. Dénes

What was YR-LEE used for?

Yeah i wanted to ask too, the paintjob is very rugged to say the least

other old fotos from ebay with romanian rugged planes





[IMG=http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2728/o1115671801vxfdsvou.th.jpg][/IMG]

[IMG=http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/5637/o11156718301kfwfaks.th.jpg][/IMG]

For transport of military and civilian VIPs.

Gen. Dénes

Guy in the middle looks funny for some reason..

And another plane..painted at the same lousy shop



This post has been edited by muggs on March 11, 2011 09:43 pm

During the war all civilian transport planes were field camouflaged, mostly with green colour patches. Especially the shiney aluminum polished of Lokheed Electra.
Any way even with this cammo they were easy target for low alttitude attacks. On 10 june 44, P-38 Lightnings shot on the ground Lokheed Electra, Ju 52 and Savoia planes parked on Boteni airfield.

Thanks for the explanations guys, YR-LEE must have been quite a "sight" painted with what appears to be green / white / rear part plain aluminium and the yellow band on top !

Here's the last pic i have from this "Fortsetzung" lot, an IAR 39

Please trust me Denes, the crosses are different sizes. As I said, it follows the Polish tradition of asymmetrical and odd-size markings on the upper wings of the PZL. The only thing that is unusual is the type of "stencil" King Michael Cross which saw quite limited/disparate use.

I cannot tell for sure what is going on with that camouflage, and there is a lot going on there, obviously a multitude of paints applied at different times and for different reasons. A certain amount of surmising has to suffice.

Radu

A P 11 f with the Michael Cross painted over the asymetrically placed roundels... awsome! But is it in green or in cammo livery?

Another picture of the same plane, PZL 11F nr.116.
Source: www.odkrywca.pl



http://img218.imageshack.us/i/pzl11fnr11602.jpg

This post has been edited by mgc151184 on March 12, 2011 12:17 pm

This is closest contemporary P 11 shot I ever saw.

Concerning the painting, could it had been done right after switching from roundels to Michael’s Crosses, or in a sort of “transitional time” - the fuselage cross missing since there was not, until after August 1944, a roundel in that position?

About the crosses, they do look kind of strange and I think might be unequal in shape. I was always puzzled about the Polish fashion with the asymmetrically placed marking (on the upper wings only?). Am I wrong or it was abandoned by the Poles before 1939? I remember seeing some photos with PZLs from September 1939 which had the “national grids” (btw, was there an official name for them?) painted symmetrically. Were they supposed to be unequal in size too, as a rule? And, most of all, was there any logic behind this? It looks really ugly to me…

There was no "transitional" period in the application of the crosses. They were introduced in May 1941 by official order. However, the PZL11 is not really a good yardstick for standard markings because after a short period of usage during Barbarossa they were delegated to training duties. It is very likely that aviation schools used some kind of temporary washable training markings to denote various teams such as "aggressors" and "defenders" during exercises. Because such temporary markings were not regulated by official orders, they are very hard to figure out. This use of temporary markings may explain the presence of the Eastern Front and prewar bands and the absence of crosses on the fuselage.

The cross is not "weird". This type of cross was mostly associated with Esc.53Vt. but it was also used on some other aircraft such as He.111 bombers ( the wings only). Such crosses saw very limited use amd are the closest rendition of "Cifra Regala a MS Regele Mihai I al Romanilor".

The assymetrical and odd Polish "checquerboard" was applied on the upper surfaces of wings to confuse gunners who use markings as aiming references. It did not really work... The assymetrical markings seem to have been used mostly on gull-winged fighters. All books on PZL fighters feature photos of such markings.

Hth
Radu

I ran a couple of measurements on this photo taking wing features as measurement aids. Denes is right, the crosses are equal in size, they are just offset. Apologies.
Radu

Nice to see some nice ARR photos. I search and collect ARR Photos -> and now you see some of my collections...ARR Planes to get very hard to find but sometimes i have luck.

Possibly pre-war ?