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> Guess Who, game
Fanex
Posted: February 11, 2011 09:36 am
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I propose a game for you gentlemens.
Who is this redutable american ace ?
He is born in 1918 and still living today.
(IMG:http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1535/65710957.jpg)

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This post has been edited by Fanex on February 11, 2011 09:37 am
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Radub
Posted: February 11, 2011 09:41 am
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Alexander Vraciu
Next!
Radu
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Fanex
Posted: February 11, 2011 10:00 am
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Next one is more easy. :)
Who is this soviet comander ?
Who answered pls put a small info about this and about Alex Vraciu.
(IMG:http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/6721/sovietcom.jpg)

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PS:It is submarine comander.

This post has been edited by Fanex on February 11, 2011 12:37 pm
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Alexei2102
Posted: February 11, 2011 10:44 am
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Victor
Posted: February 11, 2011 06:12 pm
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Sources for images please, as required by forum rules. Otherwise they will be deleted.

Also, this thread is in the wrong subsection. It has nothing to do with ARR.

Thank you.
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Mircea87
Posted: February 11, 2011 09:46 pm
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Both pics are from wikipedia. The soviet commander is Alexander Ivanovich Marinesko.
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Radub
Posted: February 12, 2011 11:51 am
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I guess this thread is about people with Romanian-sounding names that fought for other nations. In as far as I recall, Vraciu was asked in an interview whether "he considered himself Romanian" and he replied that he would have loved to think so, but sadly there was little other than his parenting to link him to Romania and, regrettably, he felt completely estranged from anything to do with Romania. Vraciu was born in Chicago on 2 November 1918. His parents were ethnic Romanians that had emigrated from Transylvania. At the time when he was born, Transylvania was not in Romania. According to Vraciu, his father had an Austrian passport. Parts of an interview with Vraciu were published in Aeromagazin No. 6, October 2002. Furthermore, not to be pedantic, but the word "Vraciu" is not Romanian. It is a Slavic vord for "Doctor" or "Healer".

I know a guy who thinks he is a Greek because he has a Greek-sounding name. Two of my best mates have Polish names (one of them related to General Maciulski) but are not linked in any way with Poland. Names mean little.

This reminids me of a joke in Catavencu a few years ago while describing some politician who was part of some Armenian political group in Romania by virtue of his name while he was "just as Armenian as Nod Gordian, Chist Ovarian or Bulb Rahidian". :lol:

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21 inf
Posted: February 12, 2011 12:21 pm
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QUOTE (Radub @ February 12, 2011 01:51 pm)
This reminids me of a joke in Catavencu a few years ago while describing some politician who was part of some Armenian political group in Romania by virtue of his name while he was "just as Armenian as Nod Gordian, Chist Ovarian or Bulb Rahidian". :lol:

Radu

This was a good joke! :D

I think one is what he feels he is. Genetically, there is no pure ethnicity and the notion of ethnicity is just a social one. Of course it would be harder for a man from a european nation to declare himself let's say, mmm, of japanese or congolese ethnicity.
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Dénes
Posted: February 12, 2011 12:49 pm
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QUOTE (21 inf @ February 12, 2011 06:21 pm)
I think one is what he feels he is. Genetically, there is no pure ethnicity and the notion of ethnicity is just a social one.

This is one of the most important statements of this thread.

Basic rule: everyone is what he/she declares him/herself to be, regardless how his/her family name sounds like.
N.B. a better indication is the person's Christian/given name. It's hard to say a guy called Attila is a Rumanian, or Dacian a Hungarian - although I've seen cases like this. For example, an acquintance of mine from Sf. Gheorghe/Sepsiszentgyörgy, Transylvania, called Antonescu Traian (one can hardly think of a more genuine Rumanian name) was not only considering himself a true székely, but actually felt offended if called a Rumanian. He was an avid photographer and always signed his works with his self-assumed name of Szentgyörgyi Ignác (the name everyone was calling him, except the policeman).

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on February 12, 2011 01:02 pm
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cainele_franctiror
Posted: February 12, 2011 01:12 pm
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Posted: February 12, 2011 01:58 pm
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QUOTE (cainele_franctiror @ February 12, 2011 03:12 pm)
What about this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pomutz

He is what he considered being, not what we are saying today he was. If he considered himself romanian, then he was a romanian, if not, he is not be regarded as romanian.
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Radub
Posted: February 13, 2011 12:07 am
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QUOTE (cainele_franctiror @ February 12, 2011 01:12 pm)
What about this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pomutz

He was born in 1818. No one was "Romanian" in 1818. There were "Moldovans", "Wallachians" or "Transylvanians". Most likely, he might have called himself an "Olah" or "Moldovan" rather than a "Romanian".
In 1818, the word "Rumelia" (also spelled on some maps of the time as "Romania") was another by-word for "Thrace" and covered the entire European side of the Ottoman empire.
"Romania" as a word to describe the current nation of that name began to be circulated after the union of the two principalities under Cuza in 1859, but it became official when Carol I acceded to the throne. Officially, "Romania" was recognised by the rest of the world after the 9th Russian-Turkish War in 1877, known in Romania as the "War of Independence"
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Imperialist
Posted: February 13, 2011 12:59 am
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QUOTE (Radub @ February 13, 2011 12:07 am)
"Romania" as a word to describe the current nation of that name began to be circulated after the union of the two principalities under Cuza in 1859, but it became official when Carol I acceded to the throne.

The word "Romania" was circulating since at least 1848.

Here's the title of an article published in Revue Des Deux Mondes in 1856:

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LES ROUMAINS. - I. - LES TITRES DE NATIONALITE ET LA RENAISSANCE LITTERAIRE DE LA ROUMANIE, par M. EDGAR QUINET
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21 inf
Posted: February 13, 2011 05:49 am
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QUOTE (Radub @ February 13, 2011 02:07 am)
QUOTE (cainele_franctiror @ February 12, 2011 01:12 pm)
What about this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pomutz

He was born in 1818. No one was "Romanian" in 1818. There were "Moldovans", "Wallachians" or "Transylvanians". Most likely, he might have called himself an "Olah" or "Moldovan" rather than a "Romanian".
In 1818, the word "Rumelia" (also spelled on some maps of the time as "Romania") was another by-word for "Thrace" and covered the entire European side of the Ottoman empire.
"Romania" as a word to describe the current nation of that name began to be circulated after the union of the two principalities under Cuza in 1859, but it became official when Carol I acceded to the throne. Officially, "Romania" was recognised by the rest of the world after the 9th Russian-Turkish War in 1877, known in Romania as the "War of Independence"
Radu

Really? Than why during Horea's uprising in 1784, the hungarian nobles converted to ortodoxism by force by Horea's rioted peasants, received "laisser-passer" which stated "acesta-i bun român" ("this individual is a good romanian")? Why romanian peasants didnt writte on those paper "this is a good transylvanian", if they considerer themselves transylvanians rather than romanians?

My personal opinion is that the consciousness of romanians of being romanians cant be established when it started, but it started earlier than some wants to believe it was. Coressi dean, when he printed the first book in romanian language, in XVIth century, stated that he printed it because it was lacking a book "în limba noastră rumunească" ("in our rumanian language"), and not "în limba noastră ardelenească". What can be argued is the moment when romanians started to dream of a unique state, Romania. I might doubt that Mihai Viteazu wanted to create Romania in 1600, but much before 1848 the idea of a Romanian country, uniting the 3 romanian provinces, was already a reality, even if not to the masses, but to the romanian inteligents. At Blaj, in May 1848, romanians from Transylvania declared "Noi vrem să ne unim cu ţara!" ("we wanted union with the country"), even if there was no Romania on that time. But the idea was already existing. How many people know that at that gathering participated also Alexandru Ioan Cuza, the one who will be the ruler of the new created Romanian Principalities in 1859? Romanian transylvanian revolutionaries were in close contact with those from Moldova and Muntenia and all shared the idea of union, even if only in Transylvanian was stated public. A customs (vamală) union existed since 1842 between Moldavia and Wallachia, so the idea was earlier than that.
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Radub
Posted: February 13, 2011 11:05 am
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I understand all you are saying and I agree. I was referring to official name of "Romania" as a country recognised by the world as such in 1818 when George Pomut joined the army. When George Pomut came to Ellis Island, when asked about his nationality by the immigration officer, he could not say "Romanian" because, legally, there was no such thing. Similarly, Vraciu's father could call himself a "Romanian", when he presented his passport at entry to America, the passport said "Austria" on the cover.

Also, see this : http://www.roconsulboston.com/Pages/InfoPa...omaniaName.html

"Romaioi", "Rumun", "Ruman" described any Byzantine citizen for many centuries. Considering that the principlaities of Wallachia and Moldova were part of the Byzantine Empire, it stands to reason that some people from those lands wouild call themselves "Romaioi" or a variation thereof.

Radu
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