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> "The Fokker Affair"
Dénes
Posted: May 29, 2010 06:12 pm
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The Rumanian Government purchased 50 Fokker D.XI biplanes from The Nederlands in 1925. However, it turned out that the matériel was outdated and not up to specification. As a consequence, members of the apparently bribed Rumanian receptioning commission was hit with a criminal trial by the State, trial which was much publicised at that time.

Does anyone have details of this famous trial (known as "Procesul Fokker") and the whole affair?

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Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on May 29, 2010 06:12 pm
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horia
Posted: May 29, 2010 07:45 pm
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If i recall right in Gheroghe Negrescu's book, Din amintirile unui vechi aviator
you can find some details, but not much. Also Valeriu Avram wrote about this subject in an old Top Gun issue (or was the Spad affair? tongue.gif )
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Vici
Posted: May 30, 2010 10:05 am
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Valeriu Avram wrote a whole series of articles about the corruption affairs regarding aircraft purchase in the interwar period, in the Top Gun magazine in 2004 under the title "S-a furat aviatia"

The first two parts of the article (April and May issues) detail the Fokker Affair (4 pages).

Dénes, I can scan those parts of the article, if you're interested leave me a PM with your e-mail adress.
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Dénes
Posted: May 30, 2010 12:19 pm
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I have the memoirs of Gen. Negrescu. As all memoirs, this is also biased and needs to be taken with a healthy pinch of salt.

In the meantime, by the kindness of Vici, I received the 4-page article of Prof. Avram. This is much more detailed; however, the technical details that would show why the Fokker D.XI was so outdated in 1925 are missing. Therefore, the research continues...

Gen. Dénes
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cainele_franctiror
Posted: May 30, 2010 05:13 pm
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Valeriu Avram almost finished a book ,,S-a furat aviatia!'' (The Aviation was Stolen) about all the coruption scandals from military aviation between the war. That s all I know
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Antoniu
Posted: June 14, 2010 09:32 am
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Scuze pentru interventia in limba romana!
Problema cu coruptia este de cercetat, problemele tehnice trebuiesc abordate de tehnicieni nu de profesori inainte de a clasifica drept corupt un anumit contract.
postez numai un document pentru a trage o concluzie:

MINISTERUL DE RAZBOI
Directia Superioara a Aeronauticii
Nr.111/15 mai 1925
Catre
Ministerul de Razboi

Am onoare a inainta alaturat procesul-verbal Nr.11 al Comitetului Consultativ al Aeronauticii,comitet care a fost consultat,conform ordinului dumnevoastra in chestiunea comenzii de aviane de vanatoare,comanda care reclama extrema urgenta.
Aparatele care au fost puse in discutie sunt patru si anume:Spad de 300 C.P. si 450 C.P.; Fokker de 300 C.P. si 450 C.P.
Cele de 300 CP,livrabile imediat,raspunzand extremei urgente,iar cele de 450 CP,in timpul cel mai scurt,aproape acelasi la ambele case.
Dupa cum se poate vedea,parerile au fost impartite si se pot grupa astfel:
-parerea pentru a se comanda aparatele Fokker.
-parerea pentru a se comanda aparatele Spad.
In fine,a treia parere pentru a se comanda aparatul Fokker de 300 CP si aparatul Spad de 450 CP.
A treia parere o excludem de la inceput considerand-o inadmisibila,fiind contrar principiului care ar trebui sa ne calauzeasca,acela al unificarii aparatelor.
Raman doar celelalte doua pareri;comanda Fokker,cealalta comanda Spad.
Sibsemnatul sunt de parere a se comanda avioanele Fokker si bazez aceasta parere pe urmatoarele consideratiuni:
Daca din punct de vedere al performantelor, cat si din acela al aerodinamicii as putea spune ca ambele case dau aparate cu aproape aceleasi calitati, superioritatea Fokker-ului reiase insa, in mod evident, din punct de vedere al constructiei, al reparatiei in escadrile, cat mai ales al fabricatiei in tara, prin faptul ca industria noastra nu poate firniza material prima. Pe cand avioanele Fokker de 300 CP si 450 CP sunt construite numai din lemn si tuburi de otel, avionul Spad cu fuselajul monocoque de 300 CP intrebuinteaza in constructie duraluminiul, care nu se gaseste la noi, si lemnul de tulipier care nu se gaseste in Europa,iar aparatul Spad de 450 CP, constructie din lemn, intrebuinteaza fuselajului mono-coque, tot acest lemn de tulipier. Si daca astazi vine sa ni se spuna ca acest lemn se poate inlocui prin lemnul de plop, care se gaseste in tara la noi si in Franta, raspund: De ce aceasta inlocuire nu s-a facut pana in present in Franta, reducandu-se prin aceasta, pretul aparatului, nemaifiind nevoie de a se aduce materialul tocmai din Africa?
Experianta pe socoteala noastra ar fi de dorit sa nu o facem.
In ceea ce priveste aparatele Fokker, concurentii critica sever sudura autogena intrebuinta-ta constructiei; aceasta critica este insa numai teoretica caci practica a dat probe contrarii, aceasta constructie dand rezultate excelente.
Din punc de vedere psihologic, parerea mea este intarita prin faptul ca am avut in tara la noi ambele aparate Spad si Fokker, si daca Fokker-ul nu ne-a omorat nici un pilot, avem insa de inregistrat, dupa cate stiu, 9 cazuri mortale cu Spad.
Ziarul “Aripa” Nr.8 din 3 Mai 1925, al carui director este Col. Andrei Popovici, un perfect cunoscator al chestiunilor Aeronaiticii, vorbind in pag.3 de aparatele Fokker D XIV, obiectul comenzii, si C VI, zice:
“Prin performantlele lor extreme de remarcabile cele 2 avioane se plaseza printre cele mai bune existente.”
In ceea ce priveste calitatile de zbor, singurul membru din comitet care putea sa se pronunte in cunostinta de cauza asupra aparatului Fokker este Lt.Col. Beroniade, pilot de vanatoare care a pilotat acest aparat.
Director Superior al Aeronauticii
General VASILE HENTESCU.


REZOLUTIE
16 MAI 1925
Avand in vedere procesele verbale nr.8, 9 si 11, precum si raportul de fata, aprob sa se comande 50 aparate de vanatoare Fokker de 300 CP, livrabile imediat. Cheltuiala va fi suportata din creditul extraordinary de 330 milioane de lei al anului in curs.
Se vor intocmi formalitatile necesare (Jurnalul Consiliului de Ministri, caiet de sarcini, proiect de contract etc.), care imi vor fi prezentate neantarziat.
Pentru ca transportul sa se faca fara intarziere se va intra in intelegere cu serviciul nostrum maritime, ca sa ne puna la dispozitie, la timp, vasele necesare pentru aducerea avioanelor in tara.
Se va cerceta daca nu cumva transportul pe uscat costa mai putin decat transportul pe apa.
Ministru de Razboi
General de Divizie
GHEORGHE MARDARESCU
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Dénes
Posted: June 14, 2010 11:49 am
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Multumesc mult pt. contributie, D-le Antoniu. Intr-adevar, adevarul sta undeva la mijloc, iar cazul trebuie analizat si din punct de vedere technic, cum am aratat deja mai sus.

Cunoasteti cumva mai precis tipul avioanelor Spad si Fokker mentionate? In documentul citat se face referinta la "aparatele Fokker D XIV, obiectul comenzii,". Dar, de fapt, tipul comandat era D.XI. Care erau oare avioanele Spad mentionate?
Aveti cumva datele technice comparative pt. aceste tipuri (din surse oficiale romanesti) care sa arate ca Fokker-ul a fost "demodat", cum se revendica (sau invers)?

Cu stima,

Dénes


P.S. Summary in English: I thanked Mr. Antoniu for his intervention and quoted document related to the ordering of Fokker airplanes in 1925. I asked him for the precise airplane types, as these are not mentioned in the document.

P.P.S. Would anyone know what is the English equivalent of the tulipier lumber (tree)?

This post has been edited by Dénes on June 14, 2010 11:59 am
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George
Posted: June 19, 2010 12:27 pm
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They`re Fokker DXI and Spad VII,XIII ans 61.
Tulipier is an Magnolia type tree from USA.
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Dénes
Posted: January 07, 2011 06:31 am
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Does anyone know what machine gun type were the Fokker D.XIs delivered to Rumania equipped with?

Thanks,

Gen. Dénes
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Stan
Posted: January 08, 2011 11:52 pm
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The more common tree name is tulip or tulip poplar. It has long been used in furniture and cabinet making. Also used for aircraft framing.
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