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> Neagu Djuvara and his oppinions
MMM
Posted: October 12, 2010 11:45 am
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ANDREAS
Posted: October 13, 2010 05:44 pm
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Interesting as usual... Neagu Djuvara... waiting the paper to read all!
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MMM
Posted: October 13, 2010 05:54 pm
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Me too! If it's interesting, I'll make a scan when the version will get to me - hope it's legal...
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Imperialist
Posted: October 13, 2010 08:10 pm
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So the European youth is burning cars... That's it? That's how N.D. sees European youth? :blink:
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Radub
Posted: October 14, 2010 08:21 am
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Neagu Djuvara is an eurosceptic. Nothing wrong with that, lots of other people are. It is a free world and everyone is free to believe whatever they want. That does not mean he is right. He is just a man with an opinion and his opinion is as good as the next man's.
Young people have always been protesting. :roll:
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MMM
  Posted: October 14, 2010 04:40 pm
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QUOTE (Radub @ October 14, 2010 11:21 am)
his opinion is as good as the next man's.

Well, except he's a little older and more experienced... so his opinion is a little more than that! - Of course, that's MY opinion... :)
I just received the magazine this evening - the written form is way bigger and more interesting! I'll post it tomorrow or in the weekend...
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ANDREAS
Posted: October 14, 2010 07:51 pm
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For me Neagu Djuvara's opinions are way more important than any other cultural personality from today! This doesn't mean he can't be wrong but at least be read and listen carefully (at least)... He's one of few people who I respect the most!
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dead-cat
Posted: November 19, 2010 04:14 pm
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MMM
Posted: January 26, 2011 07:00 pm
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Oh, I've just seen that - he's undoubtedly right! It's (unfortunately) historically proven that our affinity towards the Orthodox (Eastern) Christianity has led us on a "slower" road... :(
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Victor
Posted: January 27, 2011 07:15 am
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QUOTE (MMM @ January 26, 2011 09:00 pm)
Oh, I've just seen that - he's undoubtedly right! It's (unfortunately) historically proven that our affinity towards the Orthodox (Eastern) Christianity has led us on a "slower" road... :(

And you obviously have arguments to back this up, don't you? Or is it enough proof for you that Djuvara says it?
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Imperialist
Posted: January 27, 2011 08:27 am
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QUOTE (MMM @ January 26, 2011 07:00 pm)
Oh, I've just seen that - he's undoubtedly right! It's (unfortunately) historically proven that our affinity towards the Orthodox (Eastern) Christianity has led us on a "slower" road... :(

QUOTE
Despre Rom├ónia, crede că 50 de ani de comunism şi ortodoxia au ├«mpiedicat progresul, oferind exemplele Poloniei sau Ungariei.


So, Mr. Djuvara looks at Hungary, Poland and Romania and picks religion as the explanation.

Right, it must be religion:

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7408/invs.jpg

<_<

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MMM
  Posted: January 27, 2011 06:37 pm
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QUOTE (Victor @ January 27, 2011 10:15 am)
And you obviously have arguments to back this up, don't you? Or is it enough proof for you that Djuvara says it?

Yes, Victor, I have!
It's rather a counter-argument: the Protestant doctrine encouraged the free initiative; also, the Catholic doctrine encouraged discipline and obedience; the Orthodox doctrine - at least what was "adopted (or applied) in our area didn't encourage progress...
Of course, things are definitely not simple and cannot be explained in a forum post... :D:D:D
There are serious works - more serious than Mr. Djuvara's "short stories" - which debate these things; more precisely, what was the measure in which a certain religion determined a certain evolution. I have to dust off some of my college memories, but I'll keep this particular thread under close surveillance in the days to come :P
PS: observing my series of posts, I don't think I strike you as a "follower" of opinions, but rather a "Gică-contra"!
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21 inf
Posted: January 27, 2011 08:05 pm
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The religion has nothing do to do with the development of a certain nation. There were no "christian" nations who developed flourishing civilisations in antiquity, as it were catholic or protestant nations who massacred "savage people" who were more advanced culturally as they were. See the deeds of spanish conquistadors in South America from XVIth century.

In this idea, romanians and orthodoxism has nothing to do with romanian development as a nation. Romanians are not more or less inteligent as other nations, not lazier or hardworked as other nations. Romanians just didnt create for themselves a mature and adult way of thinking, as a nation. They are still in the age of childhood with their way of thinking, more often waiting some to fall from the sky, instead of thinking how to do and after that even doing so.
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MMM
Posted: January 27, 2011 08:16 pm
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QUOTE (21 inf @ January 27, 2011 11:05 pm)
1. The religion has nothing do to do with the development of a certain nation.

2. They are still in the age of childhood with their way of thinking, more often waiting some to fall from the sky, instead of thinking how to do and after that even doing so.

1. I object! Just look closer at the history of some states, like England - after they adopted Anglicanism, or, why not, US of A, in their early period! Or the Islamic states of XIX-th and XX-th centuries (and XXI-st, unfortunately).
2. And this is exactly what Mr. Djuvara points at! "pară mălăiaţă", with its contemporary "social/unemployment funding" version...
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21 inf
Posted: January 27, 2011 08:50 pm
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England, with it's anglicanism if yoy like so, conquered a big part of the world and made it it's colonies. Tens of milions people from diferent nations across the world were made subjects of british rulers and put to work for them. Their lands were exploited in the benefit of the new rulers, their former owners were reduced to be tools for work. Let me be well understand: I am not a comunist, but I hate when someone, being it even an entire nation, suffer because force is used against it. It is about what is good and what is wrong to be used in XX and XXI century: the force of the law or the law of the force (forţa dreptului sau dreptul forţei)?

Religion was for too many centuries a weapon of indoctrination, to fool stupid people to fight each against other, giving them a spiritual reason if a material one lacked. Also, religion has nothing to do with the development of a nation. Bizantium was a ortodox empire and for a thousand years it was as powerfull as others, non-ortodox was. But his time run out and he colapsed, as it will colapse nowadays or future empires and as always they did.
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