What were Romania's objectives in fighting Russia?

Other then retaking Bassarabia and Bukovina, what else was Romania fighting for on the Eastern front?


I can think of a few more reasons in fighting the Russians..
(1) Antonescu was perhaps trying to recover the Great Romanian Treasure (3 Trainloads of Gold), what Romanians call "Tesaurul" which the Russians had taken and never given back to Romania in the last war.
(2) Defeat Russia so it no longer represents a big threat, that could ever want to take back Romania's territories or dominate over East Europe.
(this I believe is also the reasons other countries joined), - this is why Finnland and the Baltic states supported Germany in this war, and not because of the "European Crusade against the subhuman Bolshevick", as was the propaganda..


I believe these were the Reasons Antonescu decided to follow the Germans all the way to Stalingrad...

I don't think the Romanian soldier was interested in this "Holy Crusade against Bolshevism" propaganda, and certainly he did not want to take the Land of the Russian (that was not his), and make Russia and the Ukraine into a Colony.. (which the Germans were certainly planning to do after the war)


Am I right?

This post has been edited by Anton88 on March 17, 2010 11:15 pm

Actually Antonescu strongly believed this was a crusade to save Europe from the bolshevik danger and to impose a new order free of Western-jewish influence too.

Well, you do not know that for sure. What happened after the war, when the Bolsheviks came to Romania and did exactly what the people feared the Bolsheviks would do, proves that the Romanians had a good reason to want to fight the Bolsheviks. The Romanians had to choose between two equally nasty evils, "Fascism" and "Bolshevism". Whichever one they chose, they would be in trouble.

One thing we know for sure is that the Romanian soldier was not interested in the 3 train carriages of gold as you claim in your point 1. Only some Romanians are that much into "bling" and even that is a rather more recent phenomenon.

Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on March 18, 2010 09:40 am

Well, you do not know that for sure. What happened after the war, when the Bolsheviks came to Romania and did exactly what the people feared the Bolsheviks would do, proves that the Romanians had a good reason to want to fight the Bolsheviks. The Romanians had to choose between two equally nasty evils, "Fascism" and "Bolshevism". Whichever one they chose, they would be in trouble.

One thing we know for sure is that the Romanian soldier was not interested in the 3 train carriages of gold as you claim in your point 1. Only some Romanians are that much into "bling" and even that is a rather more recent phenomenon.

Radu

Yes but what does that have to do with Bolshevism.. with the communist ideology..

The regard for human life as worthless (their own and others) that's a Russian characteristic...

The countries that joined Germany also were old enemies of Russia, Antonescu disliked the 'Russian slaws', and the Baltic states, (especially Estonia) seem to hate Russians with a great passion even today.

as for the "Trainloads of Gold"... they would have returned to Romania after the war..

Maybe this forum is not the right place for this kind of discussion.
Radu

Maybe this forum is not the right place for this kind of discussion.
Radu

Maybe You should be moderator here, so you can decide what we can discuss here or not.

Please demonstrate this claim. The fact that Stalin and his henchmen cared little for the life of others, does not necessarily that millions of Russians didn't. Generalizations are plainly stupid.

"Moderating" is not about putting people against the wall!

What I meant was that this is a history forum. "Trainloads of Gold" was never the historic reason why Romania went to war. "Fighting Communism" was a very important reason and proof of that is that it was mentioned in propaganda, literature, there was even a medal to honour the "struggle against communism".

Radu

"Moderating" is not about putting people against the wall!

What I meant was that this is a history forum. "Trainloads of Gold" was never the historic reason why Romania went to war. "Fighting Communism" was a very important reason and proof of that is that it was mentioned in propaganda, literature, there was even a medal to honour the "struggle against communism".

Radu

You can't fight Ideas with Bullets....


and I'm affraid by invading the Russians on their own soil was not the best way of fighting communist ideology.


Russians are out of luck when they fight on foreign soil (Finnland, Afghanistan)...
but when they defend Russia they can be fierce..

Antonescu should have known about this
(and constantly remind Hitler of the fate that all the other invaders suffered in Russia)
If the war was not won in the first 6 months of the Russian campaign, the war was lost

Please demonstrate this claim. The fact that Stalin and his henchmen cared little for the life of others, does not necessarily that millions of Russians didn't. Generalizations are plainly stupid.

It's just in popular culture....
a stereotype like saying Romanians are lazy, ..

It's something that they are known for...
trying to demonstrate this on a forum where the moderators have a short fuse, is suicide

In another thread (already locked), you mentioned that you got into some kind of verbal argument on another forum with a group of people that you called "hotheads".
You opened four threads on this forum, and in all four your ended up being warned by the moderators (one thread was locked).
Hmmmmmm..., a picture is emerging...
Radu

In another thread (already locked), you mentioned that you got into some kind of verbal argument on another forum with a group of people that you called "hotheads".
You opened four threads on this forum, and in all four your ended up being warned by the moderators (one thread was locked).
Hmmmmmm..., a picture is emerging...
Radu

It's just this forum and the somewhat strict and dictatorial moderators and the rules they made...

I have not encountered this anywhere else.

(And that German forum was a very right wing place where I was hoping people would not have such one-sided views about certain historical facts...

A picture is emerging here as well...
(I can tell by the diproportinately large amount of people who have been banned from the forum here at www.worldwar2.ro)
it must be the political atmosphere in Romania or something..

Hello Anton88,
My opinion is that the "fight against Bolshevism", part of the official propaganda, was not seen by our leaders only as propaganda, but with serious arguments -political, military, historical, ideological a.o.
I think here at the old Russian expansionism, continued by the Soviet Union, the Bessarabian issue, the espionage, sabotage and military actions of the Communist Party from Romania, the communist ideology, and other things like that, all part of the same problem -the communist regime of Russia.
So the official propaganda was not without consistency, but very serious and founded!

... and let's not forget the main reason - Northern Transylvania!
Antonescu was convinced that his allegiance to Hitler and Germany, will bring us back Northern Transylvania ceded to Hungary in summer 1940, after the Germany diktat!
He was convinced that through the war in Russia, we can recover Norther Transylvania from Hungary!

We like to think our members here have a higher degree of culture than to sink to the level of stereotypes. This very site started as an effort ot fight against stereotypes (the "coward Romanians that fled at Stalingrad" comes first to mind). Because of this it makes perfect sense not to encourage stereotypes and generalizations regarding any other nation. You will never earn respect without respecting others as well.

Regarding Dragos' and my role here, it is not as moderators, but as administrators, which means we pay the bills, we put in most of the work, we decide the rules. Good or bad, these rules have kept this forum alive for many years and relatively free of trolls, mentally deranged individuals and extremists. It is your choice not to like them, but that will not change them.

Regarding your initial question, I think Andreas pointed out the correct answer. Romania's strategic position made it difficult to stop on the old frontier, as the Finns did. Furthermore, Antonescu was a career officer and common sense told him that one stops only after the enemy is completely defeated. Romania did absolutely the same thing after August 1944 against the Axis. The fighting stopped only after Germany capitulated. Also, Hitler played skillfully the Transylvania card with both Romania and Hungary in order to maximize his advantages.