Psichotronic weapons, And other unconventional stuff

I did not bring "astrology", "horoscopes", "fortune telling", "palmistry", "seances", "ghosthunting", "presitidigitation" into the discussion, I did not claim they're science nor did I use them as an argument. You did all of the above.

I didn't bring precognitive dreams into the discussion as science either!

In fact I think I made it very clear, more than once, that the research results on this and other issues have not been accepted by mainstream science. Why did I bring it up? I asked for a scientific explanation from you or an admission that there might be scientifically unexplainable things out there. You reacted by saying its off topic, then saying such things do not exist and finally you'll probably call me crazy like Dragos did. So given your reticence to discuss these things, why are you even taking part in this thread? And why do you keep asking Udar and Andreas for evidence that you know will be incomplete or not mainstream, hence not up to your standards?

By the way, I'm not very interested in these subjects either, I only wanted to tell you that mainstream science doesn't explain everything and that the power of the mind is not necessarily subjected to Newton's laws of mechanics.

cheers all

Imperialist,
You brought "prophetic dreams" into the discussion as "proof" that science cannot explain everything. "Prophetic dreams" are the same as "palmistry" or "fortune telling". Sometimes, these things may eventually come true. It is only a statistical probability. But then again statistics are a science, so maybe there is scientific explanation after all for your prophetic (oh, sometimes a word just fits!) episodes.

Did you ever wonder that the "unexplainable" things that you claim are out there have more to do with the limitations of your understanding rather than the limitations of science?

Udar and Andreas are the ones who claim to "know". I asked them to explain these things to everyone, no just me - I am not the only one who still does not know what this is all about. The answers are still yet to come. That is why I keep asking the same question. Udar provided some links that are just not relevant, some not even remotely relevant. Do not underestimate our intelligence.

You are the only one who keeps trying really hard to divert this discussion, I am the one who keeps asking for it to return to the subject.

But please do keep going on. As usual, you are just adding more and more information to hep us develop a very good picture of you.

Radu

No offense Imperialist, but had I experienced such things repeatedly, I would start to doubt my own sanity

In a more serious note, since yourself said that the mainstream science failed to offer an explanation for these prophetic dreams, we can assume that they are claims of a mentally ill person, lies or distortions of reality, coincidences etc. So we have a number of reasonable explanations without having to resort to paranormal or psychics (or not unless we like watching "Codul lui Oreste" show )

Funny, probably the same thing was tought by members of French Academy when Traian Vuia tell them about posibility to fly with a machine heavier then air.

Well, lets put them more in order

1- are you agree or not with the posibility that certain EM frequency waves can affect humans, or weather, or other EM devices etc.?

2- you consider the things presented in books like that Andreas said, or i, and even Imperialist own experiances (or the radiestezists used by US troops in Vietnam) as not real, and the authors as telling science fiction stories ?

3- you consider that everything can be explained by today science and this reached the highest possible level to ever be reached ?

4-are you really think that if someone can achieve a breakthrough or advance in this domain will come next day and make all that public?

I work with Narda devices. I have three of them at work and I use them from time to time. I know more about measuring the EM field and its effects on humans than the average Joe.

The issue was never about detecting and measuring EM fields. Devices for this have been around for many years and they are not weapons unless you decide to repeatedly hit someone on the head with them. It was about influencing the brainwaves with a "weapon" in a desired way, which in this moment is not technically possible. Furthermore there is no scientific knowledge on how to influence the brainwaves in order to get a certain effect from the individual targeted by this supposed weapon.

It was also about reading brainwaves remotely. It is one thing to detect a magnetic field on a certain frequency, it is a totally different thing to be able to tell if it is a brainwave or not and more importantly where is it coming from. We are surrounded by ELF EM fields due to the electrical appliances and the electrical grid we use. Thus the spectrum is not clean and given the low intensity of the brainwaves, they could be easily be hidden below the noise floor and thus impossible to "read". The Slovak experiment was done in anechoic chamber, not in a real environment and there was no information regarding the distance between the person and the loop antenna for the measurement which yielded the peak in Fig. 3. For all we know the guy could have worn the coil on his head.

I know that the EM field sounds as something very mystic too many people, but it actually isn't.

Well, you are pretty convincing in what you say, and obviously seem to know much more then me. I just tell you what i read it, about influencing humans using EM waves, posible not just ELF, but more HF as well, or ultrasounds. The results anyway is the affecting the human EM field (which is ELF one) or brain EM field, and even internal organs.

Another category is weapons who emit a EM field (and not based on a nuclear explosion) able to "burn" all electric/electronic devices, some of them being as small as a beer dose.

What's your point?

I fail to see any parallelism here.

[QUOTE=dragos,February 03, 2010 08:30 pm] [QUOTE=udar,February 03, 2010 10:06 pm] [QUOTE=dragos,February 03, 2010 09:51 am] [QUOTE=Imperialist,February 03, 2010 10:56 am]

However, have you ever doubted your mental sanity? [/QUOTE]
Funny, probably the same thing was tought by members of French Academy when Traian Vuia tell them about posibility to fly with a machine heavier then air. [/QUOTE]
What's your point?

I fail to see any parallelism here. [/QUOTE]
The point is that even most "iluminated" minds can go wrong sometimes, and disbelieve what they think is crazy ideas or facts, considering them imposible. But, sometimes those things are real and posible, despite the fact that dont have a quick scientific explanation, at the level of knowledge then or now.

This post has been edited by udar on February 03, 2010 08:41 pm

Udar,
I have been telling you for the last few days: Please show me what you are talking about and I will decide then whether I believe or not.
I will answer your questions one by one:

1 What are "certain EM frequency waves can affect humans, or weather, or other EM devices etc."? Please explain what they are and how they work.

2. I have no access to "books like that Andreas said, or i, and even Imperialist own experiances (or the radiestezists used by US troops in Vietnam)". I cannot tell you whether they are "real, and the authors as telling science fiction stories". Please give me a summary of the main points of these books and experioences and then I will be able to nake up my mind. Just because some dude wrote a book, it does not make it true. Have you heard of the Wizard of Oz (it is a book )? Do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain.

3- "You consider that everything can be explained by today science and this reached the highest possible level to ever be reached ?" Scientists promised us flying cars and holidays on the moon by 2000. Did not happen yet. It looks like "future science" is still working on the same principles as "today science". Can we stick with what we know? Can you please explain to us in the language of "today" how these things are supposed to work? Talking about stuff that may happen in the future is fiction, no matter how you look at it.

4-"are you really think that if someone can achieve a breakthrough or advance in this domain will come next day and make all that public?" Absolutely! If I had a device that could control brains I would patent it and sell it to every person suffering from Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, paraplegics, some sort of interface that will make computer mice and keyboards obsolete, entertainment that can be sent directly to the brain. Imagine the possibilities, much more than exalted cretins fear.

Now, can we stop making this about "my inability to understand what you never explained" and make it more about some intelligent evidence that can show us that "you understand what you are not really trying to explain"?

Please do not underestimate my intelligence and the intelligence of other people who read this. Believe it or not, the "lack of understanding" of the issue of "mind control" is not a sign of stupidity.

Radu

PS I studied psychology for four years in university.

My mental health is fine. And I really don't think having 2 dreams, telling them to others who then join you in amazement several days later when the dreams "come true" would be a sign of insanity.

No, they are not anywhere near palmistry and fortune telling. There is no human factor in them (the fortune teller), there is a higher level of details and vividness etc.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I would probably have been just as skeptical as you are if I wouldn't have experienced them. The only thing that bothers me is some of the way in which you approach a casual discussion. Most of your messages have personal jabs in them. And that's unnecessary. Not only do they make the discussion longer and more convoluted in an off-topic manner but if your interlocutors are not calm enough the whole thing could turn into a huge food fight.

I have no interest in diverting this discussion. I stepped in to make a small point (to rephrase, science is a work in progress, not a completed bubble that encompasses everything there is, there might be some things outside the laws we now know) but then got dragged in because sometimes you have the habit of putting words in other users' mouths. And because I had to defend myself from some of your personal jabs.

Wow, you are developing a very good picture of me. Cool. It goes both ways.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on February 03, 2010 10:35 pm

Radu, what a shame! I actually prepared a scientific explanation that you expected, but now I realized that for you is just a entertainment, to be the GICA-CONTRA and to annihilate the efforts of others to prove something that is not hard to contradict in the current context... So, with no other members who show interest and openness to answers I will surely not answer you. Although long as I have recommended you, to read serious books (written by scientists and researchers) and you continue to watch and talk about OTV, dozen books found on the Internet and SF stories, do not think we have a serious dialogue. Do not try, you have fully cleared your intentions! You not gonna do your games with me! Have fun!
Imperialist, you have my respect! Because you had the courage to admit a personal experience (so called prophetic dreams) that I also know from personal experience, who many people consider it a freak, a bizarre, since they have not lived it! You probably know that many people experience such things but that rarely confess... I assure you of this!

Guys, I'll tell you again, I think this forum is about army and military, not about things and phenomenous you think are on the edge of science. When such things were ready to be used by military science, all of us we'll ready to dicuss them in one tpoic of this forum. Until there...

I think the discussion is getting too personal. Please stick to the ideas and avoid attacking man behind it.

Oh, how convenient Andreas! How convenient!

This is the typical kind of response from the people who believe in this kind of mumbo-jumbo. Why can you not just give a clear and concise answer?

The truth is that you and people of your kind (the "believers") prefer to preserve this area of mystique and vagueness. How come that "clarity" is not among your arsenal of "devices" used to "convince" people? You also like the create this kind of tension between the "believers" and "non-believers". You want me to believe you? Fine! Give me something to believe in! Sorry, but I will not just take your word for it. I am afraid I need some clarification, some kind of explanation or proof. Help me believe you!

I am not playing any "games". I asked one simple question, the same question every time, but the answer was not provided. Why am I the one at fault here? I will not "believe and not question" this. Your version of the "Spanish Inquisition" will not work on me.

How about you STOP personalising this issue, STOP vilifying the people who simply ask for clarifications, and just PROVIDE the answer! Then, after the proof is provided, you can start making accusations and calling people names such as ignorant.

I repeat the same question:How do these psychotronic devices work? Put up or shut up!

Radu

http://books.google.ro/books?id=D-1yt3Phqh...page&q=&f=false

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_contr...ric_experiments

http://www.raven1.net/jwalltil.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_weapon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEDUSA_%28weapon%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weaponry

This are several readings, i dont have the book in german, mentioned by Andreas, nor the books of general Emil Strainu, which i think are much more complete