Psichotronic weapons, And other unconventional stuff

So are leprechauns, warlocks and Harry Potter. You can get a PhD in Klingon language. There are sizeable tomes dedicated to the Star Wars Universe. There are thick books about Tarot readings, astrology or telling the future by looking at animas entrails. There are tons of books written on all kinds of subjects that are the offspring of peoples' minds. The fact that someone dedicates a lot of time to write about it does not make it real.

Have you got anything to say on the topic?

Radu

Which devices? What are effects of these devices?

As I already said, the thermal effect of EM waves with frequencies over 10 Mhz is well known and has been documented for several decades now. There is nothing "psychotronic" about it.

This is those devices i showed previously

http://www.measurement.sk/2005/S2/Lipkova.pdf

this is for "reading" from distance the brain ELF waves

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/3951134/description.html

and this is for both "read" and "affect" those waves.

But as i said before, this are probable stuff released for public view, very probable more developed ones are still keept for military or secret use.

About microwaves, or high energy or frequency waves, i mentioned them as being from the same category with ELF devices, as using a kind of simple energy instead of matter or a physical stuff for creating an effect on a target.

Hmm, i dont understand why you keep mention the elections and OTV, as well refusing to acomplish that science as we know today is not infallible, nor its reached the last level of possible knowledge.

I didnt mentioned Pavel Corut in what i write, even if he can be as well a respectable person. The fact that he appeared at OTV and talked about religion or so, is your prouve that psichotronic weapons dont exist? I said about book mentioned by ANDREAS, as well about couple books of general dr. Emil Strainu.

Now about the links i provided, first show how some humans was succesful in doing what was called "remote viewing" (and not just), which is considered by many a "paranormal" stuff. But for this, science dont have yet a clear explanations, as you ask. Its like in those examples i showed previously when they refused to consider is possible or real/realistic some things (flying, meteorites, etc.) that they dont understand or believe is possible. But those things was real and possible ofcourse.
I didnt say either HAARP was used against Haiti (why you ask me that dont know), i said HAARP can produce weather changes and other interference in ionosphere or earth EM field.

Mocking is very easy. But people with Ph.D.s actually did work on scientifically measuring and explaining those occurrences:

http://www.parapsych.org/history_of_pa.html

They did not manage to be accepted by mainstream science but I think over the decades they have gathered enough quantitative and qualitative analyses so as to be kept outside the "leprechauns and warlocks" category.

My point was that there are still unexplainable things out there. In my opinion it's a decent statement and I don't understand why it's so hard for you to accept it. Is it dogmatism or reluctance to accept you/we might not know everything there is?

This post has been edited by Imperialist on February 01, 2010 10:45 pm

This is a device that detects a magnetic field in anechoic chamber, without being able to tell from which direction is coming. I fail to see how this device can "read" brainwaves and how it can distinguish between brainwaves and other ELF EM sources. There are many years since this kind of detectors have been around and presently ELF measurement devices have reached a much higher level of sophistication than this primitive device (just google Narda and look at their ELF products). However, these devices can only measure the magnetic or the electric field on certain frequencies or in certain frequency bands. They cannot "read" them.

This is a patent. It does not mean it actually works, especially since is from the 70s and until now this device has not replaced the EEG which it claims to be obsolete (in case you actually read the contents of the patent). This is a clear indication of the fact that it actually does not work.

The principle it is based on is the supposed properties of the human brain to act as a mixer and modulator of two radio carriers. There is no scientific evidence that the brain can act as mixer or even as a modulator of a radio carrier. Thus it is technically impossible to "read" brainwaves using the technique described in this patent.

"Affecting" the brainwaves according to this patent is apparently simple, but is is again based on a phenomenon which is not scientifically proven: altering the brainwaves using a radio wave. The author goes as far as claiming that microwaves could also be used (frequencies up to 40 GHz, as he claims), microwaves that will not actually be able to even penetrate the skull.

The difference lies in the fact that one can actually make weapons using microwaves, while ELF do not have a clear weapons potential, with the exception of the Taser (which is static field if I am not mistaken, so not exactly ELF).

OK, I don't get it!

Someone mentioned that it is possible to make "psychotronic devices" that can manipulate people to do all sorts of things against their will. I asked for clarification. I was told to look it up by myself. I did. I found out that such "devices" were already used in Romania to win an election. I found out that respected people stated this. I found out that authors with many published books believe this. I found out that a large section of the Romanian population believe this to be a true fact. I found out that OTV is dedicating a lot of time to the subject. This is massive! Is this not true? Should we ignore this? Why?

Someone mentioned that HAARP is developing unconventional weapons. I asked for clarification. I was told to look it up by myself. I did. I found out that HAARP was linked to the eartquake in Haiti. This claim was made by respected people including the president of one country and authors who published many books. A large section of the internet readers believe this to be true. This is massive! Is this not true? Should we ignore this? Why?

I tried really hard to find out anything serious or clear about these "issues", but I found only wackery and stupidity enveloped in pseudoscientific speech. I asked rpeatedly for some evidence. I am still waiting for any kind of coherent answer.

Imperialist, I was not mocking. It is a FACT that a lot of time and space is dedicated to subjects born out of people's imagination. There is nothing wrong with fantasy, science ficton, escapist literature, etc. I read a lot of such literature myself. HOWEVER, reality is not a popularity cotest - it does not matter how many people "believe", it will not turn fiction into fact. You must learn to make a distinction between fact and fiction.

Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on February 02, 2010 10:08 am

From what I remember Geoana never claimed he did actions against his will. He said someone in the room during the debate energetically targeted him and he didn't quite feel himself that evening. Then his wife backed him and said they both felt sapped of energy and unable to focus.

Well I guess you have to send a memo to these folks and tell them they're imagining things and filling their time with star wars studies:

http://www.parapsych.org/member_index.html

cheers

Imperialist,
I have no problem with people studying ficton and science fiction and imaginary concepts to whatever depth they see fit. I read a good amount of science fiction and I love it.
A life dedicated to studyig Klingon language or Star Wars history is not a waste life and often gives a purposeful meaning to someone's life. I do not see any problem when someone claims that they belong to the "Jedi Church". However, I see it as a problem when someone claims to be able to saunter through the air and move objects using "the force" because he "is a Jedi". One is "fun", the other is "odd".

In many countries, "astrology", "horoscopes", "fortune telling", "palmistry", "seances", "ghosthunting", "presitidigitation", etc. are categorised as "entertainment". You believe that they are a "science". These subjects generate an immense amount of literature. That does not make it a science nor does it make it real.

You claim to have supernatural powers. Once again, congratulations! How about you take James Radi's challenge: http://www.randi.org/site/ He is offering one million dollars to anyone who can prove paranormal phenomena. Alternatively, you can have a "prophetic dream" about the wining numbers of the next lottery draw and win your own million.

Radu

Hmm, who said that those devices can manipulate peoples? I said that such devices can affect peoples, not that they are become "guided" as a robot with a remote control.
As i said, there are two faces of the coin, and you always choose to see just one of them, convenient for your believe, the sensationalist and often mambo-jumbo part, OTV and its old women fortune tellers and Hugo Chavez declarations against US, astrology, horoscopes and science-fiction (even if some stuff who appeared there was realized for real some time after) and avoid to see the most serious part of the problem.
Yes, some peoples write books, some of them was presented here. Do you think that those peoples invented this? Do you think that their evidences are fakes? Some stuff (both humans used or technical devices) apeared just after fall of USSR and comunism, others after some american archives was declasified. And that are probably just stuff released for public view, the most developed ones are probably still keept in secret, how is logical. Even on the wikipedia, on HAARP article, which you provided, is said about possible weather modifications done by that, which can be a part of geophysical war. And this are not "magicians" and fortune tellers de-conspired as fakes by Randy, but peoples and devices used by secret services and armies.
As well, despite the evidences that many times the science was "blind" and wasnt able to see well the reality, you are firmly in your believe that everything that is not imediatly explained by the level of today science, or by Newton laws, is not real or possible. Its a dialog of deafs here, each of ones who present their opinion doesnt look to change his mind, so everybody is free to believe what he wants.

This post has been edited by udar on February 02, 2010 07:51 pm

This is a device that detects a magnetic field in anechoic chamber, without being able to tell from which direction is coming. I fail to see how this device can "read" brainwaves and how it can distinguish between brainwaves and other ELF EM sources. There are many years since this kind of detectors have been around and presently ELF measurement devices have reached a much higher level of sophistication than this primitive device (just google Narda and look at their ELF products). However, these devices can only measure the magnetic or the electric field on certain frequencies or in certain frequency bands. They cannot "read" them.

This is a patent. It does not mean it actually works, especially since is from the 70s and until now this device has not replaced the EEG which it claims to be obsolete (in case you actually read the contents of the patent). This is a clear indication of the fact that it actually does not work.

The principle it is based on is the supposed properties of the human brain to act as a mixer and modulator of two radio carriers. There is no scientific evidence that the brain can act as mixer or even as a modulator of a radio carrier. Thus it is technically impossible to "read" brainwaves using the technique described in this patent.

"Affecting" the brainwaves according to this patent is apparently simple, but is is again based on a phenomenon which is not scientifically proven: altering the brainwaves using a radio wave. The author goes as far as claiming that microwaves could also be used (frequencies up to 40 GHz, as he claims), microwaves that will not actually be able to even penetrate the skull.

The difference lies in the fact that one can actually make weapons using microwaves, while ELF do not have a clear weapons potential, with the exception of the Taser (which is static field if I am not mistaken, so not exactly ELF).

Hi Victor
Well, this was from a short search on internet, didnt have time for more but i saw you find something interesting as well (about Narda). As you can see, is possible to measue some EM fields even from distance, and i read is possible to affect that as well (dont find posted on internet, was from books), thus such devices arent advertised for public masses, ofcourse.

Udar, there is an old saying "when you hang around with pigs you eventually end up in shi... muck". The truth of the matter is that this "subject" has been taken over by the weirdos and wackos (the "pigs" in the saying). The only way to counteract them and their effect on how the "subject" is viewed by the others is to present as much serious and solid evidence as possible. That is all I have been asking for: show me something to believe in. I got nothing so far. So, if I have nothing to "believe" in, it is not really my fault. So far, there is little "choice" for me.

Radu

I never claimed I have supernatural powers. All I said was that I had 2 completely clear and accurate prophetic dreams. I did not plan to have them, I did not invoke something before going to bed, I did not drink a special concoction and I did not wear a set of pijamas with a big S on them. They just happened and there is no scientific explanation for them.

Nope, I never claimed those things are science. All I claimed was that precognitive dreams exist (I experienced them myself) and I found out that a large group of persons from the academic world have worked for decades to give a scientifical explanation to them (among other things). Their results have not been accepted by the mainstream science community. So that leaves me to say there are things beyond what the current scientific knowledge can or is willing to explain.

I'm not interested in such things, but the fact that you claim that you experienced prophetic dreams cannot serve as a proof that they exist.

However, have you ever doubted your mental sanity?

I work with Narda devices. I have three of them at work and I use them from time to time. I know more about measuring the EM field and its effects on humans than the average Joe.

The issue was never about detecting and measuring EM fields. Devices for this have been around for many years and they are not weapons unless you decide to repeatedly hit someone on the head with them. It was about influencing the brainwaves with a "weapon" in a desired way, which in this moment is not technically possible. Furthermore there is no scientific knowledge on how to influence the brainwaves in order to get a certain effect from the individual targeted by this supposed weapon.

It was also about reading brainwaves remotely. It is one thing to detect a magnetic field on a certain frequency, it is a totally different thing to be able to tell if it is a brainwave or not and more importantly where is it coming from. We are surrounded by ELF EM fields due to the electrical appliances and the electrical grid we use. Thus the spectrum is not clean and given the low intensity of the brainwaves, they could be easily be hidden below the noise floor and thus impossible to "read". The Slovak experiment was done in anechoic chamber, not in a real environment and there was no information regarding the distance between the person and the loop antenna for the measurement which yielded the peak in Fig. 3. For all we know the guy could have worn the coil on his head.

I know that the EM field sounds as something very mystic too many people, but it actually isn't.

Then why use it as an "argument" in a discussion about limitations of science?
Is this a Radio Erevan joke?
Radu