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> Psichotronic weapons, And other unconventional stuff
Radub
Posted: January 30, 2010 03:45 pm
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The only reason why this is such a popular subject now, and the very reason why we are having this discussion here is the claim that President Basescu won the election with the help of psychotronic devices, particularly one using "purple energy". So, here we have a clear, well defined claim of the use of such a "weapon". You say that we should not link this to politics. OK, let us not talk about the politics, let us talk only about the "application" of such weapons to win an election, and ignore the political figure involved in the election. Talking about the "weapon" and ignoring its "use" is like talking about, let's say, "the Romanian Army" and refusing to talk about any battles involving them. ;)

The only reason why OTV is mentioned here is because they are the only ones who have been covering the subject 24hours a day for the last few weeks. I do not think it is right to dismiss or ignore them - OTV is where the frontline is on this battleground.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=DC...ic+OTV&rclk=pti

The fact that some people wrote books and some people claim to be "scientists" in "paranormal" fields proves nothing.
There are hundreds of thousands of books about paranormal subjects, all claiming to be "scientific": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience

So, what is the science behind "Psychotronic weapons"?

Radu
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ANDREAS
Posted: January 30, 2010 11:41 pm
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From my point of view is a chance that the issue (psichotronic energies) was brought to the fore even trough slightly awkward fact as this political scandal. Surely I was not speaking about this political event since I don't believe that the president won because of his paranormal-abilities people. I was speaking only about the certainty of the existence of such weapons -field-tested for a time ago -and that some great powers (speaking about Russia) surely are in process of perfecting such weapons and use them in the future. And denial of this fact and the repeated application of scientific evidence for their existence is in my view proof of ignorance and also refusal of further investigation of the subject. I say this because there are clear possibilities for information on this topic, f.i. books, magazines, TV, Internet, where scientific explanation and examples are given and proved by experiments made. I do not intend to offend anyone nor to get into arguments and contraarguments on this subject, since serious authors who studied the phenomenon for years have spoken and proved its existence. I hope I was clear enough and hope to not be interpreted as having intentions to insult or offend someone.
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Radub
Posted: January 31, 2010 09:07 am
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QUOTE (ANDREAS @ January 30, 2010 11:41 pm)
And denial of this fact and the repeated application of scientific evidence for their existence is in my view proof of ignorance and also refusal of further investigation of the subject.

I asked repeatedly: "what is the science behind psychotronic weapons?"

So far we got no reply except for a dogma-like "believe and don't question" type of response and plenty of barely veiled insults.

In my opinion, there is more ignorance in this refusal (or inability) to answer a clear question than in asking for clarification.

Explain psychotronic weapons, make the evidence available to scrutiny for everyone.

Radu

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Imperialist
Posted: January 31, 2010 01:14 pm
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QUOTE (Radub @ January 31, 2010 09:07 am)
I asked repeatedly: "what is the science behind psychotronic weapons?"

So far we got no reply except for a dogma-like "believe and don't question" type of response and plenty of barely veiled insults.

In my opinion, there is more ignorance in this refusal (or inability) to answer a clear question than in asking for clarification.

Explain psychotronic weapons, make the evidence available to scrutiny for everyone.

Radu

Radub, I'm as skeptical as you are and I don't like OTV either, however I'm more open minded since not everything can be scientifically explained.

For example I asked you several times if you can scientifically explain prophetic dreams. I had them more than once. How was it scientifically possible for me to have dreamt an event some 4 or 5 days before it actually took place, my exact location during that event and the time of day in which the event takes place? How was it scientifically possible for me to have dreamt the exact subject of the exam next day? And in both cases I had more than 1 witnesses. I told them what I dreamt, joked around with them and dismissed that as mere dreams but then our "faces dropped" when the dreams turned out to be 100% accurate.
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ANDREAS
Posted: January 31, 2010 03:37 pm
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QUOTE
...we got no reply except for a dogma-like "believe and don't question" type of response and plenty of barely veiled insults.

Radu
Maybe I am wrong but if the sentence is addressed to me then I am sure I was misunderstood... or misinterpreted... because all that I wanted to say is that beliefs must be based on reading and research, not on assumptions and feelings... or better -read first, comment later! This was the point of my intervention, not at all to convince you of something, you don't want to believe... You understand now why I avoid to answer your questions, not because I can't, but because I intend to make you study and find your own answers. Hope you don't take it personally and you are not angry on what I said, since I had no intention to humiliate you in any way.
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Radub
Posted: January 31, 2010 05:03 pm
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Imperialist,
I do not think that my position in this matter is one of scepticism since I do not know what this is all about. Despite my repeated demands for clarification, no explanation was given.

Why do you tell me that "not everything has a scientific explanation"? Please address that to the people above who used terms such as "reputable scientists who wrote books". Surely, if these are "men of science", then some "science" must be involved. So, what is the science behind psychotronics?

As for your "prophetic dreams", this is neither the appropriate topic nor the appropriate forum. Also, I have no opinion on the subject since I have no evidence, information or knowledge about the subject/event you describe or even you as a person.

Andreas,
Please give me at least an idea what "psychotronic weapons" are based on. This is a direct and open request.

I tried to do my own "research", but to be honest, the results I came across on the internet do not look that good for the whole world of "psychotronics". All the stuff I found is wacky, shaky or eneveloped in this "mystique", "vagueness" and "je ne sais quoi" that you also seem to be a big fan of.

If we are to have a frank and open discusson about this, then let us put the evidence on the table for everyone to see. Just being vague and mysterious about it makes this whole cockamamie look just as ridiculous as it sounds.

Radu

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Imperialist
Posted: January 31, 2010 07:19 pm
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QUOTE (Radub @ January 31, 2010 05:03 pm)
As for your "prophetic dreams", this is neither the appropriate topic nor the appropriate forum. Also, I have no opinion on the subject since I have no evidence, information or knowledge about the subject/event you describe or even you as a person.

I think it is in the appropriate topic because you talked about the power of the mind and I used that as an example that not everything in this field has a scientific explanation. Asking for a full and clear scientific explanation is an impossible task.
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Radub
Posted: January 31, 2010 08:31 pm
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QUOTE (Imperialist @ January 31, 2010 07:19 pm)

I think it is in the appropriate topic because you talked about the power of the mind and I used that as an example that not everything in this field has a scientific explanation. Asking for a full and clear scientific explanation is an impossible task.

I did not "talk" about the "power" of anything. :roll: I asked for clarification about the principles that these "Psychotronic weapons" are based on.
Yes, we all guessed by now that we will not get a full scientific explanation. At this stage I think anyone will settle for an explanation of any kind. It seems even that may be hard to provide. :D

What do you expect me to say about your alleged Flash Forward powers? Good for you! Congratulations! Can you "dream" for me what is the scientific basis of these weapons that can win elections?

Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on January 31, 2010 08:33 pm
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contras
Posted: January 31, 2010 09:12 pm
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@radub
@imperialist

I think this discution is out of topic and out of forum, too.
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Imperialist
Posted: January 31, 2010 09:22 pm
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QUOTE (Radub @ January 31, 2010 08:31 pm)
I did not "talk" about the "power" of anything. :roll: I asked for clarification about the principles that these "Psychotronic weapons" are based on.

What do you expect me to say about your alleged Flash Forward powers? Good for you! Congratulations! Can you "dream" for me what is the scientific basis of these weapons that can win elections?

Radu

You did say (on January 29):

I am talking about the "psychotronic weapons", respectively weapons using the power of the mind.

They're not powers, it just happened. I wondered if you are able to scientifically explain them in a world governed by strict physical laws. My mind should have no "image" of events and contexts that did not happen yet since their physical input was not perceived by the body and it was not processed by said mind.

This was just a handy example considering my personal experience of it. My point though was that some things apparently do not conform to to the laws (we currently know). So yes, at some point this boils down to direct experience and belief, since there's no generally accepted scientifical explanation. And even if these weapons existed I doubt those details would be found in open sources of information.

cheers

This post has been edited by Imperialist on January 31, 2010 09:23 pm
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Radub
Posted: February 01, 2010 09:18 am
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In that context "I am talking" was used as a turn of phrase to return the discussion to the topic.
I cannot possibly "talk" about this because I do not have any evidence or hard facts about the subject - hence my repeated requests for any information of any kind.

I think that your described personal experiences are off-topic and irrelevant here.

OTV are not the only ones to host this kind of discussions. Here is Jim Corr from the band The Corrs on the Irish RTE. http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1065333 (near the end of the programme)
He also believes that HAARP caused the earthquake in Haiti. Again, he speaks very convincingly when he makes the claims, but he is extremely shy when it comes to explaining or backing them up. Sounds familiar? ;)

Can anyone explain the science behind HAARP causing earthquakes?
Can anyone explain the science behind mind control devices that can win elections?

Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on February 01, 2010 09:27 am
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udar
Posted: February 01, 2010 10:08 am
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Well, i think there are 2 sides of the coin. One is the sensationalist part, often with exagerations and mixed with conspiracy theories or occult stuff hard to verify, and even with fakes. The second one is based on "field" researches (even if just verifying the results and not being able to understand the mechanisms involved) and in technical devices (the most scientific created and posible to explain at this level of knowledge).

Beside the authors mentioned by ANDREAS (respected persons), i find another interesting book, this time about a part of american program:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=D-1yt3Phqh...page&q=&f=false

There is as well the radiestesy mentioned by "21 inf" used by americans in Vietnam, (the so called "fantanari" here), or experiances as ones described by Imperialist (including the one done at Harvard, where was many witneses).
I presented as well some technical devices used for "read" and even affect from distance brain EM waves, or microwaves used as weapons

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2032...om-the-sky.html

Even on wikipedia is mentioned as well that HAARP can be used to produce weather changes betwen other things. And is obvious from a logic point of view that some capacities of such devices are still keept secret from the public eyes, and will not appear easily "in light".
Another problem is to believe that science is so evolved then can explain everything, and all who is beyond that, is not real. In pretty much any eras scientist believed that, that they represented the ultimate knowledge, and i present the theories of the most advanced minds back then, who said that is imposible to fall stones from the sky, the flight with a machine heavier then air is imposible, as well is imposible for a human to survive if its move with over 100 km/h. Science is still need to evolve, and to be stuck in what is know today, for general public, is wrong in my view.
See a quote from the same wiki:
" The boundary lines between the science and pseudoscience are disputed and difficult to determine analytically....There are well-known cases of fields that were originally considered pseudoscientific but which are now accepted scientific effects or valid hypotheses" ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience

As well, i dont try to forcefuly convince anyone about this, and i avoided to give any conection with political campagne. I was just inspired by that debate, but i dont want to relate or reduce this topic to a discusion about what said or done a politician, or if Pavel Corut appeared at OTV. I wanted to be a discussion about the possible weapons of the future, or future wars, and how realistic they are.
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Radub
Posted: February 01, 2010 10:49 am
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Udar,

What is a "respected person"? Pavel Corut is "respected" by many, but he is evidently a man troubled by many afflictions. "Respect" does not always equal "truth".

Anything can be described interms of the "occult" and "paranormal". Try to describe a mobile phone to a medieval man.

The first link you provided, showed that attempts were made to create a machine that controls the mind WITHOUT much success.

The second link leads to a weapon that causes burns using microvawes. Microwave overns have been using the same principle for the last few decades.

I am not looking for a row. I am looking for a simple, clear, explanation.

How you think HAARP caused an earthquake and why would the Americans use it against Haiti instead of, let's say, Iran?

How do you think a psychotronic device was used to win an election?

Imagine I am a medieval person and you wish to explain to me how these things work using simple words that I can undrstand.

Radu





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Victor
Posted: February 01, 2010 01:05 pm
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QUOTE ("udar")
I presented as well some technical devices used for "read" and even affect from distance brain EM waves


Which devices? What are effects of these devices?

QUOTE ("udar")
or microwaves used as weapons

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2032...om-the-sky.html


As I already said, the thermal effect of EM waves with frequencies over 10 Mhz is well known and has been documented for several decades now. There is nothing "psychotronic" about it.
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Imperialist
Posted: February 01, 2010 07:17 pm
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QUOTE (Radub @ February 01, 2010 09:18 am)
I think that your described personal experiences are off-topic and irrelevant here.

I brought them up for a reason and that reason was to tell you there are things that are not subjected to Newtonian laws. Precognitive dreams are sometimes discussed in Journals of Parapsychology or Journals of Philosophy and are known to exist. However there is no clear-cut scientific explanation for them. But nevermind. Forget I said anything.

take care
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