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> Psichotronic weapons, And other unconventional stuff
dead-cat
Posted: January 28, 2010 09:59 am
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QUOTE (21 inf @ January 26, 2010 08:28 pm)
QUOTE (dead-cat @ January 26, 2010 08:41 am)
there are also a few highly developeded programmes in Romania of this kind, better known as OTV and manele.

Hahahahhahahahha, this was very good and inspired! They can really drive you crazy in only a couple of minutes, with a high ratio of stupidity! :lol:

and here is the success documented.
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contras
Posted: January 28, 2010 10:04 am
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Ralph Peters, military analist, said that in the future, maybe will be some dipositives that will can influence human behavior.
As a example, he said that when he listen rock music at the radio, he drives faster. :D
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dead-cat
Posted: January 28, 2010 10:07 am
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without doubt, music does have an influence. back in the early '90ies, TVR broadcasted extensively Elton John's song "Sacrifice". then they walked the streets and asked people what they feel when they hear the song. one said "imi vine sa lucrez la strung".

This post has been edited by dead-cat on January 28, 2010 10:07 am
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Radub
Posted: January 28, 2010 10:19 am
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QUOTE (udar @ January 27, 2010 08:44 pm)
All those devices i said are based on science, and not on some empiric one.

OK, show that scientific basis!
Radu
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udar
Posted: January 29, 2010 09:41 am
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_contr...ric_experiments

As you can see, it is possible to produce weather modifications even at global scale heating specifical parts of ionshere

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sura_Ionosphe...eating_Facility

this is the russian equivalent

http://www.9am.ro/stiri-revista-presei/Inc...ntagonului.html

http://www.rexresearch.com/puharelf/puharich.htm

http://www.photonstimulator.com/Frequency.htm

diferent ELF and their possible effect to a brain/body

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/3951134/description.html

a patent for observe and even modify brain EM waves, from distance. There are even on our market small devices who need to be keep in a pocket or so, close to you, for induce sleeping for ex.

http://www.measurement.sk/2005/S2/Lipkova.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trance#Military

some says that music really have an effect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines

using ELF EM waves for comunicating with submarines all over the world. I assume that using them on much shorter distance will require way less energy and material and much smaller devices and can be used for other military purposes as well.

I know that this is a kind of new science, and some stuff can look weird, and as usual probably military are way before in researches compared with stuff revealed in media (keeping a secret about your achievments is a usual thing), i just want to say that from scientifc point of view some things can be prouved very well. For other things, as Imperialist present for ex., i think that science is not that evolved to undertand what really happen.
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Radub
Posted: January 29, 2010 10:56 am
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You did not show any "psychotronic", paranormal, unexplained "science" in any of these links. That is all just regular science. Some of them featured in a number of Discovery Channel / National Geographic programmes.

What is "influence the brain with Electro-Magnetic vaves?"

Please allow me to do a simple experiment: Think of a big, yellow, really juicy lemon. Did you salivate? Yo see? I influenced your brain. To do that, I sent this information via my wireless broadband internet connection. In other words, I used a radio signal (a form of EM radiation) to influence your brain. :lol:

Your mother ringing yo on the mobile phone asking you to come over for dinner and buy a bottle of oil and a kilo of potatoes on the way home is "influencing your brain and causing you to do something using electro-magnetic waves". Nothing scary or dodgy there. :lol:

Similarly, television uses radio signls to reach you and plant ides in your brain. :lol:

Stop watching ZeroTV - they are influencing your brain with EM waves. :roll:

Radu
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udar
Posted: January 29, 2010 11:36 am
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QUOTE (Radub @ January 29, 2010 10:56 am)
You did not show any "psychotronic", paranormal, unexplained "science" in any of these links. That is all just regular science. Some of them featured in a number of Discovery Channel / National Geographic programmes.

What is "influence the brain with Electro-Magnetic vaves?"

Please allow me to do a simple experiment: Think of a big, yellow, really juicy lemon. Did you salivate? Yo see? I influenced your brain. To do that, I sent this information via my wireless broadband internet connection. In other words, I used a radio signal (a form of EM radiation) to influence your brain. :lol:

Your mother ringing yo on the mobile phone asking you to come over for dinner and buy a bottle of oil and a kilo of potatoes on the way home is "influencing your brain and causing you to do something using electro-magnetic waves". Nothing scary or dodgy there. :lol:

Similarly, television uses radio signls to reach you and plant ides in your brain. :lol:

Stop watching ZeroTV - they are influencing your brain with EM waves. :roll:

Radu

:roll: OK, i give up, it seems we talk on diferent levels and your mind is already set on the fact that such things dont exist. First, you said that this are "paranormal" and not real and asked me if there are any scientific prouve that using diferent energies or diferent EM frequencies you can influence or affect peoples or/and enviroment in a way suited for a military use. Then when i present couple, you say that is regular science, nothing "paranormal". :roll: I realy dont get what you want after all ? I didnt said anything that such things are not real or scientific, i just use the usual name for them, "psychotronic" and that can be (and probably are) used for such purposes. The fact you tryied an "enveloping" atack saying that such things are from OTV is funny, but its a hit in thin air and not in target.
Not sure if in that link posted by Imperialist (the one from "Harvard") those peoples was influenced from OTV as well, better check out.
I didnt mentioned any old women magick tricks or horoscopes and fortune tellers predictions, i just mentioned that such devices and things can be real and used as weapons, and if can become the weapons of future wars.
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Radub
Posted: January 29, 2010 12:56 pm
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I am "after" nothing. This is a forum where we discuss things. I only mentioned OTV because it is boiling with conspiracies of violet energies and it is host to a bewildering collection of crackpots and weirdos.

Let us get back to discussing this.

You are the one who mentioned "psychotronic weapons".
Here is the definition of "psychotronic" from here http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/encyclopedia.html: Psychotronics A “science” that includes dowsing, radionics, and the construction and, as of 1974, the use of various “machines” that are said to focus and concentrate psychic powers. This is currently a very popular fad in Russia, though scientists there insist that the devices cannot be tested because of their esoteric nature. For the same reason, they also cannot be demonstrated. All rests on faith.

So... these are weapons that use the power of the mind. You did not show any link to any such credible device or any science behind any such device.

As for the weapons that can cause earthquakes and storms. Maybe you should separate them from one another. "Weather control" is something that has been tested and tried for years with some degree of success. "Cloud seeding" works but not always. For example, attempts at causing torrential downpours during the recent California forest fires did not work. Why? There was not enough moisture in the air. You cannot make energy from nothing. Newton said that.

A device that causes earthquakes is close to impossible because of the sheer unimaginable amount of energy needed to cause such a phenomenon. Nuclear devices cause earth tremors, but they are also terribly destructive in their own right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba The largest nuclear explosion ever caused an energy yield of 7.1 on the Richter scale. That is an immense amount of energy. Please make a simple calculation and tell me how much Electromagnetic energy is required to replicate that, how will you generate that, where will you store it and how will you escape its effects when deployed. Again, Newton is your friend.

A Buddhist monk can regulate his body temperature as a result of meditation, and that is evidence that the "earthquake machine" or the "gay bomb" work? Now, who is ridiculous?

Science fiction is fiction with a scientific basis whereby the fiction makes up for the limitations imposed by science. Do not confuse fiction for science.

Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on January 29, 2010 01:40 pm
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21 inf
Posted: January 29, 2010 02:10 pm
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Well, an example of "paranormal" or "psichic" activities are the hypotesis that people can comunicate via telepaty. US Army and Navy conducted some experiments in 60's or 70's trying to develop some battle worthy "weapons". One example is, maybe, the use of radiestesy in Vietnam war in order to locate the comunist tunnel network to allow US troops to destroy it. This example I believe is well known.

Another example, I dont know if true, is when US navy take a female rabbit and her offsprings. The ofsprings were sent to a submarine and to a predetermined day and hour, with the sub in dive under water, were killed. The mother-rabbit was conected to EEG ( for "electroencefalograma") at the same day and hour when the little rabbits were killed on the sub. US military researchers tried to see if there is a conection by brain transmision between mother and ofsprings, under water, because the researchers wanted to see if a man-to-man comunication can be established only via telepaty. I dont rem the cited results of the experiment.

US military also used mediums trying to read from distance, for example playing cards. The mediums didnt managed to guess the right number to a statistical relevant number of playing cards, from the distance.

It seems that US army "paranormal" researches were lately dropped due to lack of practical results.
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Imperialist
Posted: January 29, 2010 03:03 pm
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QUOTE (Radub @ January 29, 2010 12:56 pm)
A Buddhist monk can regulate his body temperature as a result of meditation, and that is evidence that the "earthquake machine" or the "gay bomb" work? Now, who is ridiculous?

Those guys generated enough heat (energy) to dry several towels drenched in cold water. Without shivering. That's more than mere regulation of body temperature. And how about precognitive (prophetic) dreams? How do you explain them? My point was that there is more to this world than Newton's laws. Does that mean every "psychotronic" weapon theory is valid? No, not until proven valid.
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Victor
Posted: January 29, 2010 04:23 pm
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QUOTE (udar @ January 29, 2010 11:41 am)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines

using ELF EM waves for comunicating with submarines all over the world. I assume that using them on much shorter distance will require way less energy and material and much smaller devices and can be used for other military purposes as well.


It's not about required energy, it's about building an antenna for this kind of frequencies, which is impossible to make small, portable and sufficiently directional.

Btw, the 50Hz electric grid that is allover your house will generate an ELF EM field everytime you turn an appliance/electric bulb. Do you feel any kind of life-threatening effect? We are talking about 220V and several Amps. It's not exactly low power, although it takes much, much more than that to induce dangerous currents inside your body.

As I said, the microwave weapon is clearly viable, but an ELF one is IMO not possible.
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Radub
Posted: January 29, 2010 10:26 pm
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I am talking about the "psychotronic weapons", respectively weapons using the power of the mind. We know that this is in the context of OTV's recent obsession with a "purple energy" device that w3as used to win elections.
Where is the scientific evidence of that? What is the science behind it?

Then there was a mention of some kind of "earthquake weapon". What is the science behind that? What energy does it use, how is it generated, how is it stocked, how is it deployed? HAARP, which was mentioned above, was also mentioned on OTV where "conspiracy theorists" claimed that HAARP was used to cause the earthquake in Haiti.

Until I see some evidence, all of this is quackery and weirdness passing as "science".

If it helps, you can get your tinfoil hat here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat

Radu

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ANDREAS
Posted: January 29, 2010 11:51 pm
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Hallo Radu,
Because I read recently a german translated book "Psychotronic War, From Myths to Facts" by Igor Vinokurov and Georgij Gurtovoj, Moscow 1993, and intend to read the book "Razboiul psihotronic - campul de lupta mental" by General Doctor Emil Strainu, Ed. Phobos, 2006, I intervene in this discussion. The german translation of the russian book was credible enough even for a skeptic (as I am), and there are enough scientific evidence that you are looking for... I have no intention to convince you, or anyone else that this things are (were?) real, were tested and proved capable to produce powerful effects on human small collectivities (around 100 persons) - I only speak about Soviet Union, because I read about it, no idea if the devices were tested or not elsewhere... My invitation is (for everybody) to read and to maintain (of not) the firm beliefs only after... and without the slightest intention to offend anyone...


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Radub
Posted: January 30, 2010 08:32 am
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The "zvoner" and "raspandac" also appeared on OTV explaining how a "friend of a friend" saw with their own eyes this device that helped Basescu win the election. They also quoted "books" and "journals" that substantiate such devices. Lots of talk, no solid proof.
I am not a "sceptic". As I said, I firmly believe in science. Please explain the science behind this. That is all I have been asking for.
Radu
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udar
Posted: January 30, 2010 12:41 pm
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OK, probably i didnt write all very clear from the begining.

1- i had and i have no intention to mix this with any kind of political discusion, i just said i was inspired by that heated debate (who was pretty much at any television, not just OTV) to put this here, and discuss about such kind of weapons, which i called "psichotronic". It was not to discuss about one or another of some politicians who was afected or used such kind of devices, but if such weapons exist, how realistic are, and if this are the weapons of the future.

2- i am sorry i mixed as well the "human" part of the problem (as devices used by humans directly against other humans, or even "paranormal" powers of some humans) with the more technological part (as big devices based exclusevly on technology and used on big scale to influence weather for ex., EM fields of earth, ionosphere and stuff like that).

To mention what ANDREAS said, i think there are 2 parts, one, "psichotronic" war, or weapons/devices, and second, to paraphrase another book of the same general dr. Emil Strainu, "Razboiul geofizic" - geophisical war, where enter methods of influence weather, climate and other kind of natural phenomens.

I showed some scientist who talk about such things, ANDREAS mentioned some books of serious peoples, not horoscope makers who apear daily on TV, and Imperialist present an article from a prestigious university, contain something done by a human, but hard, if not imposible to explain by today science. Because is wrong, in my opinion, to believe that science today reach the edge, and there is nothing more to discover, and the science not need to evolve, or is infallibly. And when its come to new weapons able to give you the victory or the edge in the future, is wrong as well to believe that such things are easy recognized and presented by ones who have them.
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