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ANDREAS
Posted: March 15, 2009 11:18 pm
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About the romanian army to&e in 1989 I believe I can offer this :
1st Army HQ Bucharest
1st and 9th Mechanised Divisions, 57th Tank Division, 4th Mountain Brigade, 43th Tactical Missile Brigade,
2nd Army HQ Buzau
10th and 67th Mechanised Divisions, 32 Tactical Missile Brigade, 8th and 17th Artillery Brigades, 2nd Mountain Brigade,
3rd Army HQ Craiova
2nd and 18th Mechanised Divisions, 5th Mountain Brigade,
4th Army HQ Cluj Napoca
11th and 81th Mechanised Divisions, 6th Tank Division, 1st Mountain Brigade, 37th Tactical Missile Brigade,
I am pretty sure that here are all the major tactical formations of the ground army, but without the units in reserve, activated only in case of war. Even if it look impressive this army was more a paper army with thousand of conscripts working in economy and agriculture and poor tactical training for major units. I remember very well that general Degeratu once said that in 1989 when he was an officer in the Command of 4th Army in Cluj he was really scared of the perspective of a hungarian invasion in Transilvania, which, even without soviet help, could led to a occupation of western Transilvania, up to Cluj -Dej line. Have more detalied info over divisional structure of most major units if enybody is interested.
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Victor
Posted: March 16, 2009 08:18 am
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Hi Andreas and welcome to the forum.
Please, by all means, post more information regarding the organization of the units. Thank you.
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 19, 2009 12:14 am
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So, a more detalied structure of the Divisions, as I know until now would be:

1st Mecanised Division /Tudor Vladimirescu-Debretin/ HQ Bucharest -
-1st and 2nd Mech. Rgt-s Bucharest, both with TR-85 tanks, TAB-71/-77 apc-s, TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, DAC-665T 6x6 trucks, a.o.
-3rd Mech. Rgt. Slatina, with TR-85 tanks, few MLI-84 ifv-s, TAB-71/-77 apc-s, TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, DAC-444T and -665T 6x6 trucks, a.o.
-10th Mech. Rgt. Slobozia, with TR-85 tanks, TAB-71/-77 apc-s, TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, DAC-665T 6x6 trucks, a.o.
-1st Tank Rgt. Targoviste, with T-55A and few T-72 tanks, BTR-50PK and PU apc-s, SU-100M sp guns, few 2S1 122mm sp how., URAL and SR-114 trucks,
-1st Artillery Rgt. -Slatina ??, M-30 122mm how, Md.1981 152mm how, few APR-40 Md1977 122mm mrls, SR-114s, DAC-443T, and some TMA-83 tractors ??,

57th Tank Division /Constantin Brancoveanu/ HQ Bucharest-Pantelimon
-22nd Tank Rgt. Mihai Bravu, with TR-85 tanks, TAB-71/-77 apc-s, TABC-79 rec., few M120 120mm mortars, DAC-665T 6x6 trucks, a.o.
-20th Tank Rgt. Giurgiu, with TR-85 tanks, TAB-71/-77 apc-s, TABC-79 rec., few M120 120mm mortars, DAC-665T 6x6 trucks, a.o.
-28th Tank Rgt. Pantelimon ??, with TR-85 tanks, TAB-71/-77 apc-s, TABC-79 rec., few M120 120mm mortars, DAC-665T 6x6 trucks, a.o.
-7th Mech. Rgt. Ploiesti with TR-85 tanks, MLI-84 ifv-s, TAB-71M and TAB-77 apc-s, few TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, some TAB-71AR with 82mm PM-37 mortars, DAC-444T and 665T trucks,
-30th ?? Artillery Rgt. Videle ?? - M-30 122mm how, Md.1981 152mm how, few APR-40 Md1977 122mm mrls, SR-114s, DAC-443T, and few TAR-76 tractors ??,

-2nd Mountain Brigade /Sarmizegetusa/ -Brasov
command TAB-71A R-1451 apc-s, some TABC-79 rec., some MLVM-81 apc-s, Md.1982 76mm guns, Md.1982 120mm mortars, AG-9 73mm rr-s, MR-2 14,5mm hmg-s, SR-114 and DAC-443T trucks,

-4th Mountain Brigade /Posada/ -Curtea de Arges -
almost the same as the 2nd, probably without MLVM apc-s,

-43rd Tactical Missile Brigade -Marsa near Sibiu
with 8K14 systems and AT-T heavy tractors

-16th Artillery Regiment -Slobozia
with some Md.1982 130mm guns, Md.1981 152mm how., M-160/M-1943/ 160mm heavy mortars, some APR-40 /Md.1977/ 122mm mrls, some ATS-59G and TAR-76 tractors,

-29th Antitank Artillery Regiment -Alexandria
with some Md.1975 100mm atg-s, 9P122 BRDM-based atgw-s, some BRDM-2U command, some ATS-59G and TAR-76 tractors,

-1st Engineer Regiment -Ramnicu Valcea
with PR-71/DAC-665G pontoon bridge system, BAT-M bulldozers, IMR machines, some TCG-80 rec. vehicles,

-2nd Pontoon Regiment -Turnu Magurele
with PR-71/DAC-665G pontoon bridge system,

-48th Communication Regiment -Bucharest

-?? army-level reccon bataillon with BRDM-2 vehicles for 1st Army HQs.

next time i will come with info about the 2nd Army
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 20, 2009 10:09 pm
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2nd Army HQ Buzau -integrated to the WP command in case of war,

-9th Mechanised Division /Marasesti/-HQ Constanta,
-34th Mech. Rgt.-Topraisar with TR-77 tanks, TAB-71M apc-s, TABC-79A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-444T/-665T trucks and some TABC-AR 82mm sp mortars,
-36th Mech. Rgt.-Medgidia with TR-77 tanks, TAB-71M and few TAB-77 apc-s, TABC-79A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-444T/-665T trucks and some TABC-AR 82mm sp mortars,
-40th Mech. Rgt.-Mihail Kogalniceanu with TR-77 tanks, TAB-71M apc-s, TABC-79A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-444T/-665T trucks and some TABC-AR 82mm sp mortars,
-18th Tank Rgt.-Basarabi with TR-77 tanks, some BTR-50PK and PU-2 (command), TABC-79A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., SU-100 sp guns, few M-120 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-443T and SR-114/-132 trucks,
-13th Arty. Rgt.-Medgidia with M-30 122mm how., Md.1981 152mm. how., some APR-40 122mm mrls, DAC-444T/-665T trucks and TMA-83 tractors,
-185th Rec. Btl.-Medgidia with TABC-79 and DAC-443T trucks,
-?? Antitank Arty Btl -Topraisar
-203th Tactical Missile Btl.

-16th Antitank Artillery Regiment -Cobadin ??
with Md.1977 100mm at guns, 9P122 BRDM atgm systems, ATS-59G and TAR-76 tractors, DAC-665T trucks, BRDM-2U command vehicles,

-67th Mechanised Division /Siret/-HQ Braila,
-301st Mech. Rgt.-Galati with TR-77 tanks, TAB-71M apc-s, TABC-79A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-444T/-665T trucks and some TABC-AR 82mm sp mortars,
-282nd Mech. Rgt.-Focsani with TR-77 tanks, TAB-71M and few TAB-77 apc-s, TABC-79A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-444T/-665T trucks and some TABC-AR 82mm sp mortars,
-321st Mech. Rgt.-Ramnicu Sarat with TR-77 tanks, TAB-71M apc-s, TABC-79A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-444T/-665T trucks and some TABC-AR 82mm sp mortars,
-267th Tank Rgt.-Braila with TR-77 tanks, some TAB-71M, TABC-79A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., few M-120 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-443T and SR-114/-132 trucks,
-285th Arty. Rgt.-Braila with M-30 122mm how., ML-20 152mm. how., some APR-21 122mm mrls, SR-114/-132 Bucegi trucks and AT-S tractors,
-528th Rec. Btl.-Braila with TABC-79 and DAC-443T trucks,
-?? Antitank Arty Btl -Galati

-10th Mechanised Division /Stefan cel Mare/-HQ Iasi,
-15th Mech. Rgt.-Iasi with TR-77 tanks, TAB-71M apc-s, TAB-71A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., Md.1982 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-444T/-665T trucks and some TABC-AR 82mm sp mortars,
-33rd Mech. Rgt.-Botosani with TR-77 tanks, TAB-71 and few BTR-60PB apc-s, TAB-71A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., M-120 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-444T/-665T trucks and some TAB-71AR 82mm sp mortars,
-38th Mech. Rgt.-Piatra Neamt with TR-77 tanks, TAB-71M apc-s, TAB-71A R-1451 command, TABC-79 rec., M-120 120mm mortars, MR-4 14,5mm aa hmg-s, AG-9 73mm. rr-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, DAC-444T/-665T trucks and some TABC-AR 82mm sp mortars,
-29th Tank Rgt.-Roman /?? uncertain/ with T-55 tanks, some BTR-50PK, BTR-50PU command, BTR-60PU-s, few M-120 120mm mortars, ZU-2 14,5mm aa hmg-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, SR-114/-132 trucks, MTP/BTR-50P evac.
-63rd Tank Rgt.-Bacau with T-55 tanks, BTR-50PK, BTR-50PU command, BRDM-2s, SU-100M sp guns, ZU-2 14,5mm aa hmg-s, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, SR-114/-132 trucks, MTP/BTR-50P evac. and SU-100T tractors,
-3rd Arty. Rgt.-Bacau with M-30 122mm how., D-20 152mm. how., Skoda M1934 150mm., some APR-21 122mm mrls, SR-114/-132 Bucegi trucks and AT-S tractors,

and some other army units will follow...
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MMM
Posted: March 21, 2009 07:18 am
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If you don't mind my question - how on Earth did you find out all these details? For knowing that twenty years ago, you would have faced serious espionnage charges... :P
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 21, 2009 11:49 pm
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Well, I am a curious person and had a big chance to meet and even be friend with 2-3 really good informed ex-officers: one ex-rocket officer from Ineu Brigade, one ex-intelligence officer from Timisoara Mechanised Division and a relative from my family who, God forgive him, recently died. No conection with those informations, I guess. And a lot of reading from military press -I mean here Observatorul Militar from 1991 till 2000. You can't believe how much information you can find if you know where to look. Let me give you an exemple, you may find amusing : in the newspaper Observatorul Militar after 1995 you can read at commemoration/necrology of certain officers announcements like: the collective of the former 3rd Artillery Regiment from Bacau regrets the death of major Dumitrescu who ... or: the 1978year officer promotion of the 38th Mechanised Regiment from Piatra Neamt announce that all the officers are waited at ... at the 20th anniversary of ... and so on. This mean to be patient and interested in this matter and since highschool I was really interested to know how much trough or fantasy lies between the 1968 laser story -if you know what I mean- and the 1989 revolution -or what it was. Knowing my army capabilities was a must in the 1990-1993 years when Hungary /for us in the western Transilvania/ or the 14th Army from Transnistria seemed to be a real danger. That's triggered my curiosity and my interest. So this story begins.
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MMM
  Posted: March 22, 2009 07:41 am
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Wow! So you're a person who could become a spy... :) Of course, the fact that so many data could be retrieved from public newspapers (such as Observatorul Militar, which I guess could be bought by a civilian) is in itself a "security breach", don't you think so? I don't know about the 1968 laser story. What was that?
Regarding the Romanian Revolution, I had my disertation degree on the subject (a comparison between army's involvement in 1907 and 1989). An ex-proffesor, colonel Aurel Pentelescu, was of a real help to me (still is now as well, as I'm in my second year at PHD studies - in Iaşi Univ.) and gave me some good books about the Army in december 1989:
1. CODRESCU, Costache (coordonator) – Armata Română în Revoluţia din decembrie 1989. Studiu documentar. Ediţia a II-a revăzută şi completată, Ed. Militară, Bucureşti, 1998;
2. SAVA, Constantin; MONAC, Constantin – Revoluţia din decembrie 1989 percepută prin documentele vremii. Ed. Axioma Edit, Bucureşti, 2000.
They are really documenteds books, although the "silver lining" in both of them is to put the army in a favourable light... ;)
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Dénes
Posted: March 22, 2009 08:12 am
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QUOTE (ANDREAS @ March 22, 2009 05:49 am)
(...) in the 1990-1993 years when Hungary /for us in the western Transilvania/ (...) seemed to be a real danger.

Andreas, would you care to explain us your above statement?

AFAIK, the Hungarian Army was the first to jump to the help of the beleaguered Rumanian army in late December 1989, flying in supplies and small arms, as requested by Bucharest.

Gen. Dénes
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Victor
Posted: March 22, 2009 08:19 am
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MMM,

Most of the info in this topic was also retrieved from current military publications, available online. You can be sure that those interested know the OoB very well
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 22, 2009 01:50 pm
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Hello Gen. Denes,
To answer you quickly about the perception of a hungarian threat, is very easy to me. First, I agree that in reality the military hungarian-romanian relations after 1993-94 were excellent, we all remember Cer senin agreement, but the peoples feeling were no exactly friendly. Probably you don't know the arguments between the romanian and hungarian military jurnalist -for instance Valeriu Pricina from the TV Ora Armatei or Gheorghe Vaduva from Observatorul Militar on one side, and the Panorama weekly jurnal from MTV/Magyar Televisio/ or several Duna TV transmissions, or Magyar Hirlap articles, about the hungarians bad treatment in Romania or even the poor trained bad equipped romanian army. And please don't forget about Gheorghe Funar the mayor of Cluj or the general Paul Cheler -the commander of our 4th Army from Transilvania, which caused serious damage with their statements. That's what I am talking about. And about the threat of the russian 14th Army I hope nobody needs explanation...

For MMM,
Hallo,
To answer you about the 1968 laser story -or the laser legend- a popular rumour said that Romania used a secret weapon -a laser based one- to damage hundreds of soviet tanks and armor massed near our borders, prepared to invade our country. The vehicles were unable to move and probably that's why Romania wasn't invaded :D
Yeah, our secret technology... I's a popular legend that I heared of from my parents, many friends and even former army officers ... unbelievable isn't it?
About the books you spoke about, I also read the SAVA and MONAC one, it was credible until I read the 2 volumes Alex Mihai Stoenescu -Istoria Loviturilor de Stat in Romania IV, which is the most credible of them all.

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MMM
Posted: March 22, 2009 01:57 pm
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Right! I guess there should be another topic about the secrecy of the data regarding the army - I mean, it is clear that now, with Google Earth and all those "Big Brother" stuff available!
Good job!
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Dénes
Posted: March 22, 2009 03:14 pm
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So, Andreas, if I understand it correctly, actually there was no real military threat from Hungary, only the politicians and journalists wanted this to seem a real danger.

Gen. Dénes

P.S. I don't know first hand of any of the mediatic events you mentioned, as I left Rumania during the Ceausescu regime.

This post has been edited by Dénes on March 22, 2009 03:15 pm
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 22, 2009 08:09 pm
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Hallo Gen. Denes,
Yes, that's the idea, but in the early '90, in Romania, and in particular in Transilvania, it was a tense climate of mutual distrust, not between the neighbour families /romanian and hungarian/ but about the countries, and some believed that a hungarian military intervention was not unbelievable. And I remember very well that in sommer 1992, when I was in highschool, the history teacher tells us that he fears a combined intervention of the russian 14th Army from Transnistria and a hungarian invasion. This was for real the believe of some people, even if it sounds incredible...

Hallo Victor,
As I promised I will continue to write the data about the romanian army to&e in 1989. Please tell me if you are interested about the aviation and antiaircraft units to&e, or should I stop sending this. Thank you.

The 2nd Army Command -direct subordinated units:

-8th Artillery Brigade -Focsani : 2 battalions with 130mm Md.1982 guns, 3 battalions with 152mm Md.1981 howitzers, 1 MRL battalion with APR-40 122mm mrls, 1 heavy mortar battery with 240mm M-1953 mortars, aa gun battery with Md.1988 2x30mm aa guns, 1 x 1RL232 SNAR-10 artillery locating radar vehicle, 2-3 TAB-71A R-145 command vehicles, possible some BMP PRP-3 mobile recon vehicles, many trucks and tractors,

-17th Artillery Brigade -Barlad : same as the 8th Brigade

-32th Tactical Missile Brigade -Tecuci :
1 battalion with 8K14 Elbrus systems, based on 2P19 a modified ISU-152K chassis,
2 battalions with 9K52 Luna-M systems, based on PT-76 chassis,

-65th Antitank Artillery Regiment -Galati :
with Md.1977 100mm at guns, 9P133 BRDM atgw-s, ATS-59G and TAR-76 tractors, DAC and SR trucks, BRDM-2U command vehicles,

-79th Antitank Artillery Regiment -Marasesti :
with Md.1977 100mm at guns, 9P133 BRDM atgw-s, ATS-59G and TAR-76 tractors, DAC and SR trucks, BRDM-2U command vehicles,

-3rd Engineer Regiment -Buzau :
with one pontoon-bridge battalion based on PR-71/DAC-665G, BAT-M bulldozers, IMR engineer tanks, MDK-2M sapper vehicles, posible UR-67 mine-clearing vehicles, TCG-80 recon vehicles based on TABC,

-72th Pontoon Bridge Regiment -Braila :
with 2 pontoon-bridge battalions based on PR-71/DAC-665G, no further information

-47th Communications Regiment -Buzau :
no information available

The 3nd Army Command -Craiova :

-u/i recon battalion

-2nd Mechanised Division /Mihai Viteazul/ -Craiova :
-26th Mech. Rgt. -Craiova : with TR-85 tanks, TAB-71/-71M apc-s, TABC-79 recon vehicles, ?? SU-76 sp guns, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, Md.1982 120mm mortars, ?? TAB-71AR with 82mm mortars, AG-9 rr-s, MR-4 quad 14,5mm aa hmg-s, DAC-443T and -665T trucks, TER-800 evacuation tank, TERA-71L recovery apc-s,
-114th Mech. Rgt. -Vanju Mare -same
-257th Mech. Rgt. -Plenita -same
-68th Tank Rgt. -Caracal : with TR-85 tanks, TAB-71 apc-s, TAB-71A R-1451 command, TABC-79 recon vehicles, MR-4 quad 14,5mm aa hmg-s, DAC-443T and -665T trucks, TER-800 evacuation tanks, MT-55 bridge tank,
-9th Artillery Regiment -Drobata Turnu-Severin :
with M-30 122mm how., Md.1981 152mm how., APR-40 122mm mrls, SR-114 and DAC-444 trucks, TMA-83 arty tractors, TABC-79A-POMA and TAB-77A-PCOMA command vehicles,
-121th Recon Battalion -Craiova :
with TABC-79 recon vehicles and DAC-444T trucks,
-325th Antitank Artillery Battalion -Caracal :
with Md.1975 100mm at guns, 9P122 BRDM atgw-s, SR-132 trucks, ATS-59 tractors,

-18th Mechanised Division /Decebal/ -Timisoara :
-32nd Mech. Rgt. -Timisoara :
with T-55 /T-55AM2 tanks, TAB-71M and TAB-77 apc-s, TABC-79 recon vehicles, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, Md.1982 120mm mortars, ?? TAB-71AR with 82mm mortars, AG-9 rr-s, MR-4 quad 14,5mm aa hmg-s, DAC-443T and -665T trucks, T-55T evacuation tank, TERA-71L/-77L recovery apc-s,
-18th Mech. Rgt. -Caransebes :
with T-54 and T-55 tanks, TAB-71 and BTR-60PB apc-s, BRDM-2 recon vehicles, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, Md.1943 120mm mortars, ?? TAB-71AR with 82mm mortars, AG-9 rr-s, MR-4 quad 14,5mm aa hmg-s, SR-114D and DAC-443T trucks, T-55T evacuation tank, TERA-71L recovery apc-s, ?? MT-55 bridge tank,
-90th Mech. Rgt. -Lugoj :
with T-55 tanks, TAB-71 and TAB-71M apc-s, TABC-79 recon vehicles, ZiS-3 76mm field guns, Md.1982 120mm mortars, ?? 82mm Md.1977 mortars, AG-9 rr-s, MR-4 quad 14,5mm aa hmg-s, SR-114D and DAC-443T trucks, T-55T evacuation tank, TERA-71L recovery apc-s, ?? MT-55 bridge tank,
-44th Tank Regiment -Giroc :
with T-55 /T-55AM2 tanks, BTR-50PK and PU-2 apc-s, BRDM-2 recon vehicles, BTR-60 R-145BM command vehicle, ZU-2 14,5mm aa hmg-s, SR-114D and DAC-443T trucks, T-55T evacuation tank, MTP/BTR-50P recovery vehicle,
-39th Artillery Regiment
with M-30 122mm how, Skoda M1934 150mm how, APR-21 122mm mrl SR-based,
SR-132 trucks, AT-LM tractors,
-169th Recon Battalion -Timisoara :
with TABC-79 recon vehicles and DAC-444T trucks,
-328th Antitank Artillery Battalion -Timisoara :
with D-48 85mm at guns, 9P122 BRDM atgw-s, SR-132 trucks, ATS-59 tractors,
-64th AA Artillery Battalion -Timisoara :
with 37mm, 57mm. S-60 aa guns, 9K31M strela-1 BRDM systems,
-51th Engineer Battalion -
-207th Tactical Rocket Battalion -
with 2K6 Luna missile systems, reload vehicles, trucks, BTR-50PU command,

Please let me know if I should continue or not. Thank you.






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Cantacuzino
Posted: March 22, 2009 08:30 pm
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QUOTE
Please let me know if I should continue or not. Thank you.



Andreas if you continuu to fill so many pages it means we had/have the bigest conventional armed forces in the world. :)
It looks like you will never stop to finish your list :ph34r: :lol:

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on March 22, 2009 08:33 pm
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dragos
Posted: March 22, 2009 11:54 pm
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Of course, Denes knew the situation that most people come to know as the Romanian-Hungarian crisis soon after the "revolution", staged by "Ilich" :roll:
The country needed a state security (SRI) and a nationalistic party (PRM) to suppress the historical parties (PNL, PNT) for a new born society.
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