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> Panzer Forces in Iasi-Chisinau Operation aug. 1944, Could they stop the Soviets?
ANDREAS
Posted: September 23, 2012 04:03 pm
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Hallo Taz1,
From the book I mentioned "Die 13. Panzer Division 1935-1945 by Leo Beckmann..., Dörfler Verlag GmbH, 2003" it is sure that parts of the battlegroups of this division (it is written that subunits of this division fought in the Iasi-Chisinau soviet offensive as battlegroups not as a division) managed to cross the mountains into hungarian-controlled Transylvania. The so-called "Kampfgruppe Grade" is deployed in the Targu-Mures -Odorheiu Secuiesc area in the first days of september 1944, area later occupied by troops of the 8. SS Kavallerie Division "Florian Geyer".
I have to add to the armored units mentioned before as stationed on (or near) the romanian front in Moldova (in august 1944) the "schwere Heeres-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 93" (heavy tank hunter battalion) with 25 Panzerjäger „Nashorn“, subordinated to the 6th Army Command, Army Group South Ukraine. The unit was totally destroyed in the battles in central and southern Bassarabia in august 1944.
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Agarici
Posted: September 23, 2012 10:24 pm
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QUOTE (ANDREAS @ September 23, 2012 04:03 pm)

I have to add to the armored units mentioned before as stationed on (or near) the romanian front in Moldova (in august 1944) the "schwere Heeres-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 93" (heavy tank hunter battalion) with 25 Panzerjäger „Nashorn“, subordinated to the 6th Army Command, Army Group South Ukraine. The unit was totally destroyed in the battles in central and southern Bassarabia in august 1944.


This had to be a very potent unit, the defensive equivalent of a Tiger battalion/Abteilung. I had no idea that there were such powerful machines on the Moldavian front in August 1944.
Are there any info about their actions/performance during Iasi-Chisinau offensive?
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ANDREAS
Posted: September 23, 2012 11:37 pm
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Agarici, in the book it is mentioned that a battle group of this division (the II Abt. /Pz.Rgt. 4 of the 13. Pz.Div., also other units) fought alongside this heavy tank hunter battalion in Popovka (today Popeasca, north-west of Ermoclia, in eastern Bassarabia) where they tried to stop the soviet offensive (6Gd Corps and 66 Corps of the soviet 37. Army). They managed to resist only 2 days before the 306 german Infantry Division will loose half of his capacity to fight and the 13. Panzer Division a quarter, but also most of his combat vehicles. There are mentions about StuG.III Ausf.G of the Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 239 as fighting together with the 13. Pz.Div. in this battle!
On the other hand, I've found a source on internet (http://www.vksvg.eu -they identified german soldiers fallen in battle) who confirm this information! On second half of august 1944 the heavy tank hunter battalion was positioned between the german 15 and 294 Infantry Divisions and was involved in the in the battles to prevent the soviets to penetrate the front line. It is possible that some units retreated in the pocket of the 6th Army encircled in central and eastern Bassarabia at end august 1944.

This post has been edited by ANDREAS on September 24, 2012 12:08 am
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Agarici
Posted: September 25, 2012 11:04 am
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Andreas, thank you for the answer!
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ANDREAS
Posted: September 25, 2012 06:37 pm
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It's my pleasure Agarici to bring something new and to be helpful if I could!
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Taz1
Posted: December 20, 2012 09:53 pm
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There is a site where it is possible to find data regarding german tiger tank crew dead or wounded in Moldova in the spring summer 1944 ?
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Taz1
Posted: August 30, 2013 08:40 pm
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In the revue History Magazine nr 10 1975 it is an article regarding the fate of the german army 29 corp romania. The 10 panzergrenadier division and the 13 panzer was part of that corp.I will try to post the article.
Regardind the 13 panzer division in romania there is major :
http://www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-45.de/I...uer-Walther.htm
It was decorated for leading a beatlle group from the Ploiesti (some 2000 men) with elements from the 5 Flak Division and ucrainians from Vlasov army across Carpatians in Transilvania. It is possible that this major was from the 13 Panzer Divion ? So elements of that division arrived in Ploiesti area in late august 1944 ? Other elements of the division were in Baragan including the comander of the division and manage to cross in Bulgaria.
Can somebody now the fate of the Braun detachment ?
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Taz1
Posted: October 03, 2013 08:34 pm
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QUOTE (ANDREAS @ April 10, 2009 09:51 pm)
New informations over the german Panzer/Panzergrenadier Divisions present in august 1944 on the Moldova front.
A good informed ex-classmate of mine living for years in Germany send me some interesting informations reguarding the 10th Panzergrenadier Division present in the front region west from Iasi city, south from the river Bahlui, in mid august 1944.
His source is the book written in 1963 by general August Schmidt, the former commander of this division. In this book he describes in detail the battles of this big german unit on the eastern front, and also on the moldavian front in august 1944. So the new informations are:
-the german mechanised division /that's what Panzergrenadier means/ was very strong and complete in mid august with 3 tanks Pz.IIIM and 43 sp guns StuG.IIIG, 110 armd. halftracks and a strong artillery. The division commander was general August Schmidt, an very experienced officer, and his troops over 12.000 strong.
-the division was encircled from the first days due to romanian divisions -any idea which? -leaving their front with little resistence. He manage to avoid destruction with high losses and retreat towards Husi. More heavy fighting with the soviet units weaken the division who, without enough fuel for the machines had to abandon some battle ready armd vehicles and sp guns. On 24 august the colomns marched trough the Vutcani village where they meet soviet armour but manage to cross. But the shortage of fuel was the worst ennemy, and again many vehicles had to be destroyed
In 25 august the hope had returned since remnants of the 13. Panzer Division were in the Leova area, over the Pruth river. But the total encirclement of the Division was finished and the only order the commander could give was -abandon all the heavy materiel and destroy it and try, in small units, to escape. Some 2500 soldiers were able to cross the ennemy lines and after several tentatives they cross the Sireth river in the Condrea -Suraia east of Focsani in 27 august. The march trough Baragan towards Bulgaria was the only posibility since the Buzau area was closed by ennemy units. Remnants of the division pass Baragan with numerous clashes with romanian army and reserve units and could not cross Danube in Bulgaria. They abandon all the remaining motorised and armoured vehicles and also the light and medium guns in Varasti area, west from Calarasi, in 30 august, and tried to cross the Danube in Bulgaria with little succes. Most of them were captured by romanian troops and few crossed into Bulgaria.
If you know something ref. 13.Panzer Division or K.G. 20.Panzer Division please reply.

Regarding the 10 th panzer. In romanian surces we had the information that after a clashes with the romania 21 infantery division. They had ( the germans) 20 dead, 100 wounded and 3600 prisoniers. So many more troops were able to cross the Prut river and to escape the soviet encirclement than 2500. This first clush with romanians took place at Pogoanele on 29 august . It was the first time when romanian army used 75 mm resita antitank cannons against german armor ( stug 3 and stug 4 ) with excelent results. Other clashes ocured in Slobozia, Gemenele village,Albesti village .Intial the 10th panzergrenadier division was part of the 29 army corp comanded by the general Anton Freiherr von Bechtolsheim toghether with the 13 panzer division, Braun detachment and 153 training division. There were no fewer than 5 general present with the 29 army corp. von bechtolseim general Troger, general von Dewitz, general Bayer, general Burckhardt comander pf the koruck 593. General August Smith and von Bechtolseim were the only general tah evoided campture . Von Bechtolsteim buy crossing the carpats mountains with some 100 of his man. Interesting that the comander ot the 10th panzergrenadier division manage to evoid capture in Bulgaria but general troger comander of the 13 panzer division no.
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ANDREAS
Posted: October 12, 2013 10:50 am
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Taz1, rooted reluctance to contradict the romanian sources on the 10. PzGren Division annihilation in south Baragan when crossing the Danube to Bulgaria, we can not exclude the possibility that the higher number of german soldiers captured there could be gathered from the road, soldiers who joined the 10. Division in an attempt to escape of imprisonment or certain death! Or it is possible that the German source to be imprecise, although I personally doubt that!
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Taz1
Posted: October 15, 2013 08:24 pm
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QUOTE (ANDREAS @ October 12, 2013 10:50 am)
Taz1, rooted reluctance to contradict the romanian sources on the 10. PzGren Division annihilation in south Baragan when crossing the Danube to Bulgaria, we can not exclude the possibility that the higher number of german soldiers captured there could be gathered from the road, soldiers who joined the 10. Division in an attempt to escape of imprisonment or certain death! Or it is possible that the German source to be imprecise, although I personally doubt that!

Andreas you are right it is very posssible that the 3600 germans captured on 29.08.1944 near the Village Pogoanele were not only from the 10 th panzergrenadier division. There is a tendency by the romanian to exagerate. What is true is the fact that 10 th panzergrenadier division and the 13 panzer division split in several kamphgruppe and one of this belonged to the 10 th panzergrenadier was destroed on 29.08.1944 near Pogoanele the rest of the division made this way to Varesti area and manage to cross the danube river. One kamphgruppe from 13 panzer division all so make this way in Bulgaria. In the book writen buy the general August Smith is is written how many men from 10th panzergrenadier divion escape in Bulgaria ? And how thay manage to escape and to evoid the bulgarian captivity ? The comanader of 13 panzer division did not escape and it was made prisonier in Bulgaria.
There are books that are very interesting and full of information regarding the fate of the german division in Romania in late august 1944 but unfortunelly not translate in romania even that our military historians had acces to this bools even from 1960,s 1970 ,s
Some example :


"Die Katastrophe in Rumämien 1944" von Hans Kissel
- "Verratene Schlachten, Die Tragödie der Wehrmacht in Rumänien und Ungarn" von Hans Frießner (ehem. OB der HGr.)
- "Finale Rumänien, Das Schicksal von 750 000 deutschen Kriegsgefangenen
- "Der Landser Nr. 2226" - Todesfalle Bukarest - August 1944 - Deutsche Soldaten in der rumänischen Hauptstadt - Krieg gegen die ehemaligen Verbündeten (mit original Zitaten von Frießner und offiziellen Darstellungen"
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ANDREAS
Posted: October 26, 2013 04:41 pm
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Taz1, in the book "Die Geschichte der 10. Infanterie-Division" -August Schmidt, Dörfler Verlag, 10.2005 there is a indication about the number of soldiers who crossed the Danube into Bulgaria, "less than one hundred men". A larger number, unknown, had fallen in the hands of romanian troops. Of these, less than half were able to reach the German Occupation Zone in Serbia.
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Taz1
Posted: November 25, 2013 11:03 am
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Thanks Andreas for answer. Do you have the book regarding the History of the 10 Panzergrenadier Divison ? Or can you copy/ scan the pages regarding the division operations in Romania in spring, summer 1944 ? :)
Regarding the fate of the 10 panzergrenadier division it seems that the decision tto cross Romania into Bulgaria was a big mistake made buy the german hight comand and buy the comanders of the panzer forces involved in the Iassi- Chisinau ofensive .They had a much bigger chance to escape if they chose to cross the Carpatians mountains in Transylvania . Most of the forces that tried that arrived in Transilvania in much greater numbers then the forces that tried to cross the Danube .
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Taz1
Posted: October 25, 2015 09:01 pm
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A relic of the 13 panzer divizion was found in the Prut river this summer. Most probably the sdkfz 8 was from the 66 artillery regiment from the 13 panzer divizion.
http://www.redescoperaistoria.ro/2015/09/1...rie-foto-video/

All so regarding the 13 Panzer divizion I found this map with the course taken by the divizion in august 44 in Romania during the retreat :

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/i/2dwr-fk.jpg

Remains the question if the major Wather Neuer was a member of the 13 panzer divizion or the comander of the panzer batallion of Ploiesti. All maybe somebody knows in Ploiesti area how many panzers were present and what type .
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