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> Romania and the outcome of the war
razu
Posted: January 21, 2009 07:23 pm
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Fruntas
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[split from http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=3903]

I wonder what my great grand father General Aristide Razu was thinking after Romania lost so many men in WW1 fighting against germany when Antonescu and nazism came to power.I think if I was him and saw what he have seen in his lifetime I would have laughed about going against .....Maybe the communism would have not come in such a force in our country.Maybe if people would read books instead of burning them,they would know that not even Napoleon could beat the russians,or the british.
Anyway first nationalization was made to our family in 1938....when romanian government said"from tomorow the underground resources belong to the state" that is the oil if I m not mistaken.And then slowly we lost everything ,land houses ....lives.Even today General Aristide Razu house in Bucharest on Varsoviei street No.5 is nationalized since 1946 and lived by the ex workers of the communist party.Not to mention that my uncle Radu Mandrea "donated" to the communist party in 1948
Mosia Balcesti Giltofani which today is Nicolae Balcescu Museum.....probably in order to not go to prisson.Because it is well known that in 1947 arrestations of land owners,intelectuals, begun in romania.....So if we stood up and fought and would have not been so friendly with the germans before 1938 things would have not gone so wrong for us.....or at least we would have known that we have tried.....

This post has been edited by Victor on January 30, 2009 05:32 pm
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razu
Posted: January 21, 2009 07:32 pm
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Fruntas
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By the way not even the securitate(romanian secret police 1945-2009-...) file of my great grand father General Aristide Razu cannot be seen .Which lead me to believe that Romania became after 1945... romania.Prize of war for the western powers and for the winners of WW2 in general.And going through Europe this year I ve never seen such poverty near richness and communism(not corruption as we are manipulated through media ) as I see today in romania.
Cheers!
p.s. Also my great...grand father Barbu Balcescu had a brother, Nicolae Balcescu who in 1848 made the Revolution in Wallachia.
And this uncle Nicolae Balcescu escaped communism when in 1970 a romanian delegation of "hystorians" went to Palermo to bring his remains back to communist romania,obviously to use them for communist propaganda,and they were denied the right to ungrave him."Fortune Favours the Brave".To this day,2009.
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razu
Posted: January 29, 2009 10:11 pm
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Fruntas
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Anyway ,"Thanks to all those"rumanians" that made possible for the germans to use the rumanian oil in WW2 especially to those from the rumanian old families like Cantacuzino or Polizu Micsunesti .....the list is long but "distinguished".....and to those that after 1945 went away just before the arrestations begun in romania"Fuga-i rusinoasa da sanatoasa" as the romanian saying in English( running away is shameful but healthy)""."Thanks for 50 years of one of the worse forms of communism ever applied to a country.

This post has been edited by razu on January 30, 2009 07:14 am
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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: January 29, 2009 10:23 pm
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QUOTE (razu @ January 29, 2009 10:11 pm)
Anyway ,"Thanks to all those"rumanians" that made possible for the germans to use the rumanian oil in WW2 especially to those from the rumanian old families like Cantacuzino or Polizu .....the list is long but "distinguished".....and to those that after 1945 went away just before the arrestations begun in romania"Fuga-i rusinoasa da sanatoasa" as the romanian saying in English( running away is shameful but healthy)""."Thanks for 50 years of one of the worse forms of communism ever applied to a country.

Is there some point to your last 3 posts or just ranting out loud? :blink:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but,

as you were not around in those years,

do not be in such a hurry to judge others,

or the decisions that were taken.

In all reality, if those Romanian's in charge of the country

had not decided to allow Germany to have the resources the Germans

would have taken them by force.

Kevin in Deva.
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razu
Posted: January 30, 2009 07:37 am
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Fruntas
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QUOTE (New Connaught Ranger @ January 29, 2009 10:23 pm)
QUOTE (razu @ January 29, 2009 10:11 pm)
Anyway ,"Thanks to all those"rumanians" that made possible for the germans to use the rumanian oil  in WW2 especially to those from the rumanian old families like Cantacuzino or Polizu .....the list is long but "distinguished".....and to those that after 1945 went away just before the arrestations begun in romania"Fuga-i rusinoasa da sanatoasa" as the romanian saying in English( running away is shameful but healthy)""."Thanks for 50 years of one of the worse forms of communism ever applied to a country.

Is there some point to your last 3 posts or just ranting out loud? :blink:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but,

as you were not around in those years,

do not be in such a hurry to judge others,

or the decisions that were taken.

In all reality, if those Romanian's in charge of the country

had not decided to allow Germany to have the resources the Germans

would have taken them by force.

Kevin in Deva.

Yes but if they would sunk the oil intallations upside down as they did in ww1 by Colonel Griffits from UK Army while General Aristide Razu and others.... were keeping Mackensen busy ,and fought the germans as they did in ww1,and the romanain aces went to fight in RAF instead of Luftvaffe......things would be a little different around here now.Don t you think.And the "Ploiesti Raid" would not be remembered as the greatest raid in aviation history,some 532 american flyer died.
Romania after 1945 would have not been treated by the western powers as prize,prizoner of war,and "those good romanians " would have been only baptized according to the Christian Ways not otherwisee and with other things as they were afte 1947....in prissons
Sorry I know it is a taugh one but think how many people died because the romanian oil went to the wrong people...even today, some of them being romanians themselves.
Not to mention that after 1945 they nationalized everything from everybody......people like my uncle Nicolae Balcescu were used in communist propaganda....mocked ......my family became all of a sudden the bad example as one should not be....Even Christianity was denied to romanians.
That is sayng something doesen't it?
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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: January 30, 2009 08:46 am
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Hard to tell by your seemingly confused comments, but, it seems you are giving far to much credit to the capabilities of the Romanian Armed Forces of the 1938+ period.

Romanian performance in WW1 was poor despite their winning some battles, after a good start in 1916 the Romanian forces were pushed all the way east by the Austro-Hungarian - Bulgarian - Prussian forces.

Where were the Romanian Aces to fight the R.A.F.?

The Plostei Raid remembered as the greatest raid in aviation history? by whom is it so remembered?

You seem to think only your family had problems with the post WW2 Communist regime :roll:, when in fact many people all over Eastern Europe were in the same situation.

And what has Christianity to do with it?

You are saying lots, but making very little sense and much of it has no bearing on what this forum is about. Going around with a chip on your shoulder solves nothing, time and life moves on and you have to learn to move along with it.

Kevin in Deva.
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MMM
Posted: January 30, 2009 04:58 pm
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General de divizie
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QUOTE
as the greatest raid in aviation history

Perhaps the greatest raid to happen on Romanian territory?
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dead-cat
Posted: January 30, 2009 06:02 pm
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QUOTE

Austro-Hungarian - Bulgarian - Prussian forces.

prussian? and where's the turks?

This post has been edited by dead-cat on January 30, 2009 06:02 pm
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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: January 30, 2009 07:38 pm
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QUOTE (dead-cat @ January 30, 2009 06:02 pm)
QUOTE

Austro-Hungarian - Bulgarian - Prussian forces.

prussian? and where's the turks?


Briefly:-

In the World War 1 period, what we now call Germany was ruled over by the State of Prussia, the House of Hohenzollern, all the other associated German States & Duchy's (including off the top of my head:)

Anhalt, Baden, Bamberg, Bayern, Brandenburg, Braunschweig, Breman, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Hanover, Hansestädte, Hessen, Hohenlohe, Hohenzollern, Köln, Kurland, Limberg, Lippe, Lübeck, Mainz, Mecklenburg,Nassau,Oldenburg, Reuss, Sachsen, Schwarzburg, Thurn und Taxis, Waldeck, Westphalen, Württemberg, Wurzburg,

were subservient to Prussia and the Kaiser, and expected to add a compliment of troops to supplement the Prussian military forces in the time of the Great War. Prussian military Forces were in Romania to help Kaiser Wilhelm II cousin Emperor Franz-Josef of Austro-Hungaria.

The Turks did most of their fighting in Gallipoli, Iraq, Syria, and what is today Palestine, as most of the middle-East came under the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

Kevin in Deva
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dead-cat
Posted: January 30, 2009 08:15 pm
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Locotenent
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there was no "prussian military force" as official designation in 1916. the official designation was "kaiserliches Ostheer" for the army fighting in the east.

actually at Sibiu the alpine korps was present, mostly from bavaria. (among other)

the turks send 2 divisions to assist Mackensen's mixed force attacking from bulgaria.

This post has been edited by dead-cat on January 30, 2009 08:16 pm
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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: January 30, 2009 08:35 pm
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QUOTE (dead-cat @ January 30, 2009 08:15 pm)
there was no "prussian military force" as official designation in 1916. the official designation was "kaiserliches Ostheer" for the army fighting in the east.

actually at Sibiu the alpine korps was present, mostly from bavaria. (among other)

the turks send 2 divisions to assist Mackensen's mixed force attacking from bulgaria.

I did not say Prussian Military Force, I said "Prussian Military Forces" as a general description of forces sent by the Prussian Kaiser Wilhelm II :roll:

I was trying to keep it as simple and in English (as this forum requires) as possible, but, if you need the entire order of battle posted in German, I am sure that can be arranged. :lol:

In the German Kriegs Chronicle / Calender of 1917 it was described as this:-

Balkan-Kreigßshpaltz.

Heeresgruppe des Generalfeldmarshals v. Mackensen.

Any military that came out of Prussia was still under control of the Prussian Military under Kaiser Wilhelm II,Hindenburg and Ludendorff in the Prussian High Command.

Bavarian mountain troops were still under orders from the Prussians.

2 Turkish Divisions were not the majority of the Turkish Armed Forces of the day :roll:

This post has been edited by New Connaught Ranger on January 30, 2009 08:36 pm
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dead-cat
Posted: January 30, 2009 08:40 pm
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now the entire OOB of the german army for sept. 1916 in romania would be something really nice to see, whenever you get the time to post it of course.

actually i was pointing out that simply saying "central powers" would've spared you listing every combatant (and forgetting the turks).

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