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To flu out of the STALINGRAD pocket., 17$

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roarke	Posted: January 14, 2009 02:31 pm
Soldat Group: Members Posts: 14 Member No.: 2213 Joined: July 31, 2008	I think will be best for all to speak only english.There are people that dont know german.

drgeorge	Posted: January 14, 2009 09:00 pm
Soldat Group: Members Posts: 13 Member No.: 2226 Joined: August 20, 2008	Hummel! No need to be so defensive! Put yourself in the potential buyers' position. Would you be willing to spend money on something that you don't know what it is? I understand the uproar--I haven't seen these before either--quite a few counterfeits come from Russia these days. This type of relic, because of the nature of the material and manufacture, would be very easy to make and age--this from a counterfeiter point of view!! If you don't sell it here, you can always find a buyer somewhere else (W.C.Fields:"...there's a sucker born every minute!") G

drgeorge

Posted: January 14, 2009 09:03 pm

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Joined: August 20, 2008

QUOTE (roarke @ January 14, 2009 02:31 pm)

I think will be best for all to speak only english.There are people that dont know german.

I agree--isn't English or Roumanian the official language here?

Hummel

Posted: January 15, 2009 10:27 am

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QUOTE (drgeorge @ January 14, 2009 09:00 pm)

Hummel!
No need to be so defensive! Put yourself in the potential buyers' position. Would you be willing to spend money on something that you don't know what it is?
I understand the uproar--I haven't seen these before either--quite a few counterfeits come from Russia these days. This type of relic, because of the nature of the material and manufacture, would be very easy to make and age--this from a counterfeiter point of view!!
If you don't sell it here, you can always find a buyer somewhere else (W.C.Fields:"...there's a sucker born every minute!")
G

There is no need to compile all the Russians.
These things authentic, real.
They are from the German airport Pitomnik in Stadingrad. part of them was found by me, the rest of my comrades.

Radub

Posted: January 15, 2009 10:40 am

General de corp de armata

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QUOTE (Hummel @ January 15, 2009 10:27 am)

part of them was found by me, the rest of my comrades.

Yes, but who are you and who are your comrades?

What are your and your comrades' credentials. You were asked legitimate questions and your replies are either vague or angry. Either way, that is not really inspiring trust.

Radu

Hummel	Posted: January 15, 2009 11:29 am
Caporal Group: Members Posts: 135 Member No.: 435 Joined: December 29, 2004	I have friends, we are Russian. I did not violate any rules. I showed you photographs of the excavations.

Victor	Posted: January 15, 2009 12:22 pm
Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003	For those who haven't followed the forum closely, Hummel has posted many photos of finds from around Stalingrad for identification, when he suspected they were of Romanian origin. A simple search on the forum would yield some results.

Hummel	Posted: January 25, 2009 09:18 am
Caporal Group: Members Posts: 135 Member No.: 435 Joined: December 29, 2004	Thank you Victor! Here are my findings. http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...=262256&page=30

Radub	Posted: January 25, 2009 09:33 am
General de corp de armata Group: Members Posts: 1670 Member No.: 476 Joined: January 23, 2005	Good link Hummel. Now I remember where I saw this before. It was here http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ight=stalingrad Radu

New Connaught Ranger

Posted: January 25, 2009 02:24 pm

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I agree with Mike P & Doug Kenwright posts at W.A.com:-

QUOTE

Sorry to disagree here but , I don’t buy it . . . Just take a minute and think it out.>>
No Food , Medical Supplies, Ammo , Fuel . . . .and yet in the midst of everything , the 6th Army finds a press and creates a die and starts making these disks ? Since 45,000 were evacuated by air . . . . .they would have had to have made 10’s of thousands of these…and they would have started showing up in collections years ago.>>
> >
This was not done by any of the other German “Pockets” like Cholm or Demjansk so ..the 6th Army came up with their own novel idea ? A metal Token that would actually represent “evacuation” , some for Medical reasons but others maybe Running away ?
I don't think the German Army would create a symbol like that that could come back and "haunt" them.
--That would have been a very powerful symbol that I’m sure the Soviets Propaganda machine would not have overlooked. They would have put that symbol to use immediately on Leaflets, posters ..prob even made a few up to drop on the Germans and affect Morale.>>
>>
If these were real and whoever possessed this “get out of Jail Free” Token was allowed to Fly out of the Pocket, Soldiers would have been killing each other to get one and that surely would have been documented somewhere ..at least in the 6th Army Diary which WAS flown out and saved. None of the Books or 1st hand accounts ever mention this Metal Token / Pass .. >>
That Token would have become infamous and come to symbolize the desperate escape from the pocket .>>
> >
In my 40 years of collecting I’ve never seen Hermann Historica or any of the other Auction Houses selling these ….and I bet if you do a search on these Forums ,you won’t find any mention of them years ago either.>>
So ..Considering where these are coming from and how they’ve become popular Ebay/Epier items ..I think it’s a Fantasy item along the lines of those Channel Island Tokens that showed up in the 1980’s and that new RAD Nurse armband that just started showing up. New Fantasy items sans Swastika so they’ll be easier to sell on line.>>
Just my opinion guys >>

AND

QUOTE

There is a man near me who runs a small wood working shop and is a veteran of the 6th army at Stalingrad . .in fact, his wife was one of the last civilians with the army to be evacuated by road before the ring closed..(she was a nurse. . .)

After the Russians had encircled Stalingrad completely, the gentleman was wounded by grenade splinters to the face and hands.He was evacuated to German held territory on one of the few aircraft that made a landing to deliver food and small arms ammunition.The turnaround was under 10 minutes, and was probably one of the last transport aircraft to successfully land intact and take off till the 6th surrendered.

Something like 50-60 transports were shot down before all air operations ceased..no sense in throwing good after bad i suppose.

Now, i asked him this afternoon what the process was for wounded being transferred out..he stated that in typical German fashion all paperwork was filled out, and he was kept lucid to ensure it was correct..he was tagged with a large waxed cardboard tag with the nature of the wounds, name, amount and types of drugs administered (if any) and was duly signed off on by no less than two staff doctors and attached to his second button hole..He was also given his wehrpass, as it was deemed that it would be best if it was carried out by the soldier given the circumstance.

He stated no special tags were issued, or flight papers, nor were there men shot scrambling to escape on the planes..in spite of everything, he said the soldiers maintained quite good discipline and most kept their wits about them...it was only on the plane where the wounds were for the first time felt, and on the over one hour ride it was sheer agony.

The most amazing thing is when he landed, he was treated by the woman who be his wife after the war, though no storybook romance was involved at the time..

This man is a wealth of stories...he is the only man in his platoon to survive the war, and was ony one of twenty one to survive from his regiment of over three hundred men....

Kevin in Deva.

Hummel	Posted: February 23, 2009 04:54 pm
Caporal Group: Members Posts: 135 Member No.: 435 Joined: December 29, 2004	http://cgi.ebay.de/Very-rare-cargo-loading...1QQcmdZViewItem

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