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> When did WW2 become WORLD war?, What would be the date?
MMM
Posted: December 18, 2008 07:36 pm
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What would be the date from which ww2 could be considered a world-scale conflict?
During college, there was a talk at a seminar on this subject, but that was short...
I mean, when can we talk about a world conflict rather than a series of separate conflicts? There is a theory according to which the war became world war in 1944, once the americans landed in Europe on the main front - this is the latest date I have found theories about...
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Cantacuzino
Posted: December 18, 2008 08:43 pm
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QUOTE
What would be the date from which ww2 could be considered a world-scale conflict?
During college, there was a talk at a seminar on this subject, but that was short...
I mean, when can we talk about a world conflict rather than a series of separate conflicts? There is a theory according to which the war became world war in 1944, once the americans landed in Europe on the main front - this is the latest date I have found theories about...


In my opinion a world war should be considered when more than one country on both sides and more than one continent (as a theater of operations) .

In WW2 when axis countries (Germany, Italy, Japan etc) and allies countries (United Kingdom, USSR, USA etc) start fightings on many continents (Europe, Asia, Africa etc).That is enough for a world war. So I believe the year 1941 it's better suited for WW2 starting date.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on December 18, 2008 09:11 pm
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Cantacuzino
Posted: December 18, 2008 08:59 pm
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QUOTE
There is a theory according to which the war became world war in 1944, once the americans landed in Europe on the main front - this is the latest date I have found theories about...


What are the basis for this theory ?

Americans landed in Europe first in 1943 in Italy .
Main front or second front have no relevance for world war starting date.
The opening of the second front in Normandi helped only for world war quick finish not for starting.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on December 18, 2008 09:06 pm
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Cantacuzino
Posted: December 18, 2008 09:30 pm
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There is a theory according to which the war became world war in 1944


I remember in my youth , in school all history books , Romania start to fight ( in WW2) from 23 august '44 ( the army insurrection ) :lol:
Probably some history teachers from romanian College still give the year 1944 as world war 2 starting date (when Romania became the fourth ally) . :D

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on December 18, 2008 09:43 pm
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dragos
Posted: December 18, 2008 10:15 pm
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_2#T..._becomes_global

1941 is the year when all the world's great powers became involved on more than one continent.
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Dénes
Posted: December 19, 2008 05:38 am
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I believe the first truly international war following WW 1 was the civil war in Spain, which started in 1936. It's there where ideologies confronted each other, and several superpowers (notably Germany, USSR, Italy) collided (back then, the USA could not be considered a "superpower" yet).

Some historians place the start of the world wide conflict at the Italian invasion of Abyssinia (Ethiopia) in 1935. However, despite two continents being involved, that was rather a local war, and ended before the Spanish civil war started.

And let's not forget the Sino-Japanese war (proceeding in earnest in 1937), followed by the Japanese-Soviet war, where also two continents were involved.

So, personally, I would place the start of a www (world-wide-war, not web :D ) at 1937, when the aforementioned two wars were raging in parallel.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 19, 2008 05:41 am
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Cantacuzino
Posted: December 19, 2008 06:35 am
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Than for www starting date we must use a median date with the tolerance (minus/plus). :)

For the minus tolerance is the year of 1937 where a couple of countries (Spain Italy,Japan,China,USSR etc) start to fight individualy on couple of continents (Asia,Europe,Africa)

For maximum tolerance is the year 1941 when all world became split in two sides (the good guys and the bad guys :D ) and start fighting on all continents.

So the median date is 1939 (Poland invasion) :roll:
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Imperialist
Posted: December 19, 2008 08:31 am
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I agree with Cantacuzino. 1939. Given Britain's and France's global empires, the moment they declared war on Germany the war became a world-scale conflict.
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MMM
Posted: December 19, 2008 08:50 am
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RE: Imperialist: It is true, but there were two separate conflicts: one between Poland and Germany+-SU and the other between Germany and France+England.
QUOTE
1941 is the year when all the world's great powers became involved on more than one continent.

It is also true, but rather in a series of separate conflicts than one great world war with two clear sides.
QUOTE
Probably some history teachers from romanian College still give the year 1944 as world war 2 starting date (when Romania became the fourth ally) . 

LOL!!!
This one is new! The guy from which I heard this was then (1999) a young assistant at University. The idea was that in that moment, June 6-th 1944, USA involved in the main theatre of operations in the European War, not in the oceans (Pacific, Atlantic). I do not agree with it...
I will return :)
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Cantacuzino
Posted: December 19, 2008 09:14 am
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QUOTE

1941 is the year when all the world's great powers became involved on more than one continent. 


It is also true, but rather in a series of separate conflicts than one great world war with two clear sides.


Year 1941 was very clear regarding the sides split.
Also USA made clear wich side choose when started the lendlease program in march '41 and start fighting due to Japan attack at Pearl Harbour in the same year.
During '43 and '44 there were some changing in sides ( Italy,Romania etc).

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on December 19, 2008 09:34 am
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Radub
Posted: December 19, 2008 09:37 am
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In my opinion, the conflict became global after the 7th of December 1941, when Pearl Hearbor was attacked and America entered the war. America was the last major player to get involved.

However, by that stage fighting has ceased in some parts of the world and new battles were starting in other places. What I am trying to say is that there was no single time when the whole world was at war at the same time.

However, if we take into account "what continents were involved", the conflict was global as soon as the British became involved. The British Commonwealth (Crown Colonies) included countires subject to the crown or dominions on every continent of the world.

This can be a complex issue because of the continuous shifting situation all over the world at the time. This reminds me of another discussion on another forum in relation to "who were the Allies and who were the Axis". There is no single answer, there are lots of answers, and each may be right.

Also, see this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_2#T..._becomes_global

Radu
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MMM
Posted: December 19, 2008 10:12 am
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QUOTE
There is no single answer, there are lots of answers, and each may be right.

That was EXACTLY my point, but as this is a forum, I thought it would be a nice subject, without any emotional involvement for any side (e.g. Romanians at Stalingrad or other threads which sort of degenerated... :( )
I shall consult the renowned authority of WIKI :D :D :D
BTW, you all know we could change some of the dates in wiki, right?
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Imperialist
Posted: December 19, 2008 10:35 am
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QUOTE (Dénes @ December 19, 2008 05:38 am)
And let's not forget the Sino-Japanese war (proceeding in earnest in 1937), followed by the Japanese-Soviet war, where also two continents were involved.

I hope you're not implying Japan is a continent. :P
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Dénes
Posted: December 19, 2008 01:39 pm
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Where did you take this from, Imp.? <_<

Here is what I wrote:
QUOTE
...the Japanese-Soviet war, where also two continents were involved.

Now, if I look at the map I see that a significant part of the Soviet Union is in Europe, while Japan is in Asia, if I am not mistaken...

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 19, 2008 01:39 pm
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Imperialist
Posted: December 19, 2008 02:22 pm
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QUOTE (Dénes @ December 19, 2008 01:39 pm)
Where did you take this from, Imp.?  <_<

Here is what I wrote:
QUOTE
...the Japanese-Soviet war, where also two continents were involved.

Now, if I look at the map I see that a significant part of the Soviet Union is in Europe, while Japan is in Asia, if I am not mistaken...

Gen. Dénes

Denes, it was a joke.

Your complete statement was:

And let's not forget the Sino-Japanese war (proceeding in earnest in 1937), followed by the Japanese-Soviet war, where also two continents were involved.

And it could have been understood as saying that in the Sino-Japanese war two continents were involved, just as happened in the following Japanese-Soviet war. But it was a joke anyway, far from me the idea of you thinking Japan was a continent. Ok? :)

But a good point comes out of this anyway.
What does "involved continents" mean?
Russia has a part on the European continent but Russia waging war on Japan doesn't make the whole European continent involved.

Is the involvement of continents relevant for the definition of a world war? And does it have to be (direct/indirect) military involvement or only diplomatical?

Do all of them have to be involved?

If that is so then WWII was not a world war since South America was left out. And large parts of Africa were left out too.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on December 19, 2008 02:24 pm
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