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> Virtutea Aeronautica
Carol I
Posted: March 14, 2006 01:40 pm
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QUOTE (aviatiadasenzatia @ Mar 14 2006, 02:27 PM)
QUOTE (Carol I @ Feb 1 2006, 09:08 PM)
One more officer's cross of the Order for Aeronautical Virtue with a darker central shield. Lots of similar officer's crosses are surfacing lately! ;)

(IMG:http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/4461/6249103538a3jb.jpg) (IMG:http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/4243/6249103538r7wo.jpg)

Sorry , this one is not a officer V.A. , it is a commodore Virtue. :) The seller didn't knew this , and it seems no one payed attention on detalils.

What was the size of the badge?
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aviatiadasenzatia
Posted: March 14, 2006 06:29 pm
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Here's the photo , I think it speaks for itself.

(IMG:http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/7637/va1a7qc.jpg)
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b737
Posted: March 14, 2006 06:58 pm
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You lucky one.... ;)
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Carol I
Posted: March 14, 2006 09:12 pm
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QUOTE (aviatiadasenzatia @ Mar 14 2006, 07:29 PM)
Here's the photo , I think it speaks for itself.

(IMG:http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/7637/va1a7qc.jpg)

Yes it does. And both badges appear to have a darker centre shield.
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Carol I
Posted: March 14, 2006 09:31 pm
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QUOTE (Carol I @ Mar 14 2006, 09:57 AM)
What about this badge?

(IMG:http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1160/virtaer2zc.jpg)

(IMG:http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2143/va5vl.jpg)

One more badge for comparison. What is your opinion? Are these authentic badges or high quality reproductions?
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aviatiadasenzatia
Posted: March 15, 2006 05:08 pm
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The one from eBay is genuine , the second one I doubt is ok. Anyway to be certain about them you shoud study them. Or at least to look at some good quality photos.
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Carol I
Posted: March 15, 2006 05:55 pm
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QUOTE (aviatiadasenzatia @ Mar 15 2006, 06:08 PM)
The one from eBay is genuine , the second one I doubt is ok. Anyway to be certain about them you shoud study them. Or at least to look at some good quality photos.

Thanks for your opinion. Do you happen to know the provenance of the piece?

The interesting thing is that the pieces exhibited in the National Military Museum seem to have "pointed" hilts as the second piece I posted, while the one you mention as genuine has somewhat broader hilts. Could this detail indicate two manufacturers?
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aviatiadasenzatia
Posted: March 15, 2006 10:45 pm
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Unfortunately I know only the former owner of the piece , not the one who was awarded with it. Your theory about different manufacturers could be valid , the problem is that there are no informations or hallmarks to indicate if there were more manufacturers . The only photo which I could find with the commodore VA first model it was in Klitmann's book.

This post has been edited by aviatiadasenzatia on March 15, 2006 10:45 pm
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REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR
Posted: March 16, 2006 02:21 pm
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QUOTE (aviatiadasenzatia @ Mar 14 2006, 01:23 PM)
:ph34r: You forgot to post this picture too.
(IMG:http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4669/8f1b1wh.jpg)

Although this piece looks to be original, a collector must consider if the piece was married and put together for the purpose of obtaining maximum sales price. The ribbon and the silver bars are original and both show signs of age. Tarnish, staining, and fading. But, were the bars added onto the ribbon last week ???? If the ribbon under the bars are equaly faded and stained, I would say yes. It was modified for the purpose of the auction to be able to get another $200.00 Euros sales price. If the ribbon looks new under the bars and had not seen sunlight in 50 plus years, then it has more credibility as being original to the order. What also bothers me about this auction is how many bidders sprung up at the last minute with "0" feedbacks. Where did all these new found collectors of Romanian orders come from ? A common tactic used by Ebay dealers to bid up the sales price which is considered illegal by Ebay. Dealers will use multiple names or have freinds and relatives bid on their items. Proving it and enforcing Ebay policy to protect the buyers is seldom encountered. A lot of dealers have gone to hide a bidders identity for the purpose of "Protecting the identities of the buyers". Completely irrelevant. It protects the dealers who use multiple names on Ebay to bid on their own items driving up the prices to acheive maximum sales price.

Note : This is strictly commentary. It does not mean that this particular dealer was involed in any unethical practices nor any unethical practices occured in this particular auction transaction. The point made is that even though the order is original, it could have also been a married piece which would then make it not original.

This post has been edited by REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR on March 16, 2006 02:25 pm
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aviatiadasenzatia
Posted: March 17, 2006 05:46 am
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QUOTE (REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR @ Mar 16 2006, 02:21 PM)
QUOTE (aviatiadasenzatia @ Mar 14 2006, 01:23 PM)
:ph34r: You forgot to post this picture too.
(IMG:http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4669/8f1b1wh.jpg)

Although this piece looks to be original, a collector must consider if the piece was married and put together for the purpose of obtaining maximum sales price. The ribbon and the silver bars are original and both show signs of age. Tarnish, staining, and fading. But, were the bars added onto the ribbon last week ???? If the ribbon under the bars are equaly faded and stained, I would say yes. It was modified for the purpose of the auction to be able to get another $200.00 Euros sales price. If the ribbon looks new under the bars and had not seen sunlight in 50 plus years, then it has more credibility as being original to the order. What also bothers me about this auction is how many bidders sprung up at the last minute with "0" feedbacks. Where did all these new found collectors of Romanian orders come from ? A common tactic used by Ebay dealers to bid up the sales price which is considered illegal by Ebay. Dealers will use multiple names or have freinds and relatives bid on their items. Proving it and enforcing Ebay policy to protect the buyers is seldom encountered. A lot of dealers have gone to hide a bidders identity for the purpose of "Protecting the identities of the buyers". Completely irrelevant. It protects the dealers who use multiple names on Ebay to bid on their own items driving up the prices to acheive maximum sales price.

Note : This is strictly commentary. It does not mean that this particular dealer was involed in any unethical practices nor any unethical practices occured in this particular auction transaction. The point made is that even though the order is original, it could have also been a married piece which would then make it not original.

:lol: :lol: Are you bidding often 341 euros for doubious pieces ?? C'mon you know that piece was okay.....
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aviatiadasenzatia
Posted: March 24, 2006 08:32 am
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QUOTE
Could this detail indicate two manufacturers?


The only two manufacturers known (from Klietmann) are : Rudolf Souval from Wien and Karnet from Prague. Also he mentioned , I quote : "among others". Probably as well the "Monetaria Nationala" made them too.
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Cuza
Posted: March 24, 2006 02:37 pm
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QUOTE (aviatiadasenzatia @ Mar 24 2006, 02:32 AM)
QUOTE
Could this detail indicate two manufacturers?


The only two manufacturers known (from Klietmann) are : Rudolf Souval from Wien and Karnet from Prague. Also he mentioned , I quote : "among others". Probably as well the "Monetaria Nationala" made them too.

Weiss manufactured a Gold Merit cross, w/o swords, Carol II issue.
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Carol I
Posted: April 06, 2006 07:06 am
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QUOTE (Cuza @ Mar 24 2006, 03:37 PM)
QUOTE (aviatiadasenzatia @ Mar 24 2006, 02:32 AM)

The only two manufacturers known (from Klietmann) are : Rudolf Souval from Wien and Karnet from Prague. Also he mentioned , I quote : "among others". Probably as well the "Monetaria Nationala" made them too.

Weiss manufactured a Gold Merit cross, w/o swords, Carol II issue.

As did Lavrillier.
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millerbean
Posted: April 06, 2007 12:06 am
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Is there a list of German pilots that recieved this award,
thanks any help will be useful

This post has been edited by millerbean on April 06, 2007 04:00 am
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aviatiadasenzatia
Posted: May 02, 2008 09:15 am
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[B]Unfortunatly there is no list even for the Romanian pilots....
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