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> The Romanian Forces in the West
Alexandru H.
Posted: November 07, 2003 02:57 am
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Is it true that Romania was the fourth Allied power regarding size of armed forces? How many soldiers did it deploy? Is is true that France, Canada or Australia had more men in Europe in the same timeline (1944-1945)?
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dragos
Posted: November 11, 2003 11:38 am
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Free France numbered in 1944 some 400,000 military (including former Vichy troops), but only about 100,000 fought in Italy and an even a smaller number played a role in liberation of France. Canada sent to Europe starting from 1939 3 infantry divisions, 2 armored divisions and 2 armored brigades. Australia had no division in Europe, the last division to serve in the Middle East, 9th AIF division, being withdrawn to Pacific theatre after the battle of El Alamein.

In the Western campaign Romania engaged in fight 538,536 military, of which 169,822 were casualties (21,035 dead, 90,344 wounded, 58,443 missing). This places Romania on the fourth place of any country fighting for Allied coalition in Europe during 1944-1945, after Soviet Union, USA and United Kingdom. This statement was also broadcasted by Radio London on 7 January 1945.
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Benoit Douville
Posted: January 31, 2005 07:42 pm
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Talking about the Romanian Forces on the Western Front, in which Battle Romania had the most soldiers?

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dragos
Posted: January 31, 2005 09:04 pm
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The participating efectives in the Western Campaign on regions are:

in Romania - 265,735 troops
in Hungary - 210,006 troops
in Czechoslovakia - approx 248,000 troops
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Florin
Posted: February 03, 2005 12:37 am
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QUOTE (dragos @ Nov 11 2003, 06:38 AM)
Free France numbered in 1944 some 400,000 military (including former Vichy troops), but only about 100,000 fought in Italy and an even a smaller number played a role in liberation of France.

After the Americans and the British liberated France, the French sent troops to fight with Wehrmacht at the border with Germany. The German 27th Army was the only ground unit faced by the French at the border. This German 27th Army, entrenched in the Black Forest Mountains, kept the French at the border until the end of April 1945!
When the French eventually broke through, in May 1945, did not matter too much.

I think something more important was done by the French in Italy: they and the Polish troops were the soldiers who broke the German lines at Monte Cassino, and forced the Germans to start their retreat toward the north of Italy.

This post has been edited by Florin on February 03, 2005 12:38 am
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mabadesc
Posted: February 03, 2005 03:29 am
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QUOTE
This German 27th Army, entrenched in the Black Forest Mountains, kept the French at the border until the end of April 1945


I guess the French Army didn't have much luck against German troops in the past century. :P

Not in 1870-'71, not in 1940, not even in 1914-1918 if it weren't for the help of the British, the Canadians, and the Americans.
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Benoit Douville
Posted: February 06, 2005 01:31 am
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Mabadesc,

You are absolutely right. The French Army was supposed to be the best Army between World War I and World War II according to some Historians, well it was probably the most overated Army ever!

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John
Posted: March 13, 2010 01:12 pm
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QUOTE (Florin @ February 03, 2005 12:37 am)
QUOTE (dragos @ Nov 11 2003, 06:38 AM)
Free France numbered in 1944 some 400,000 military (including former Vichy troops), but only about 100,000 fought in Italy and an even a smaller number played a role in liberation of France.

After the Americans and the British liberated France, the French sent troops to fight with Wehrmacht at the border with Germany. The German 27th Army was the only ground unit faced by the French at the border. This German 27th Army, entrenched in the Black Forest Mountains, kept the French at the border until the end of April 1945!
When the French eventually broke through, in May 1945, did not matter too much.

I think something more important was done by the French in Italy: they and the Polish troops were the soldiers who broke the German lines at Monte Cassino, and forced the Germans to start their retreat toward the north of Italy.

These statements are inaccurate in a couple of regards. The French forces fought on three separate fronts in France -- the Alps, against the German fortresses on the Atlantic coast, and in Alsace.

There was no German 27th Army on the western front. It was the 19th Army. The Germans entrenched themselves in the Vosges Mountains (not the Black Forest), out of which they were driven by November 1944. The Germans held on to a bridgehead over the Rhine centered on Colmar (the Colmar Pocket) which was cleared by early February 1945.

The French 1st Army crossed the German border in March 1945 and by the end of April, had taken the cities of Karlsruhe, Stuttgart, and Ulm. During the 1944-45 campaign, they accomplished some noteworthy operational victories, including forcing the Belfort and Saverne Gaps, the destruction of the IV Luftwaffe Korps near Mulhouse, the liberation of Strasbourg, and the encirclement of the XVIII SS Korps in the Black Forest. The truth is that the French 1st Army was among the best field armies the Allies had in the 1944-45 campaign.

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Matasso
Posted: May 05, 2010 08:06 pm
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Just a couple of complementary info on the French in late WW2.

The French 1st Army, part of the US 6th Army Group had in late 1944 over 300 000 soldiers and there were over 100 000 more on the secondary Alps and Atlantic Coast Fronts. There were not more, because the US forced the French to organise support and Logistic tail troops alongside their lines and it took from the front a great deal of soldiers.
As for combat records, the fench opened the way to Rome in 1944, they took almost alone the ports of Toulon and Marseille in less than 2 weeks after the landing in Provence on 15th August 1944 when the plan stated for a capture in D+45, they fought alongside US troops up to Austria in 1945. Not that bad.

As for an earlier remark, and just to pick up the fight, fortunately for the Allies the French were there in World War 1.

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General
Posted: September 19, 2010 11:10 pm
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I have done some search (maybe not enough) but still couldn't find more about the structure of the romanian forces which had taken part to the western campaign. The only exception I've found on the structure is very scarced: 1st Army (4th Corps and 7th Corps) and 4th Army (2nd Corps and 6th Corps). Nothing about divisions, reserves, other units. Could like someone, please, help me on this matter ?
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Dénes
Posted: September 20, 2010 05:29 am
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QUOTE (General @ September 20, 2010 05:10 am)
I have done some search (maybe not enough) but still couldn't find more about the structure of the romanian  forces which had taken part to the western campaign.

The use of "Western Campaign" in an English language forum is not recommended, as it might confuse non-Rumanian readers. I would suggest rather "Anti-Axis Campaign", for example.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on September 20, 2010 06:30 pm
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Victor
Posted: September 20, 2010 07:08 am
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QUOTE (General @ September 20, 2010 01:10 am)
I have done some search (maybe not enough) but still couldn't find more about the structure of the romanian forces which had taken part to the western campaign. The only exception I've found on the structure is very scarced: 1st Army (4th Corps and 7th Corps) and 4th Army (2nd Corps and 6th Corps). Nothing about divisions, reserves, other units. Could like someone, please, help me on this matter ?
Radu

Could you be more specific regarding the months of 1944/45 you are interested in?
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General
Posted: September 20, 2010 12:30 pm
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Well, in fact my curiosity concerns especially the jan.-may 1945 period. But I would like, also, to find out the facts from august-dec. 1944 period.
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General
Posted: September 20, 2010 12:35 pm
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All I did was to repeat the title of the topic, just a little modified. That's why I believe this title should be changed first. Otherwise, I have no problem. For the future I will call it anti-Axis campaign.
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General
Posted: September 24, 2010 12:21 pm
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Well, thank you for your answer. <_<
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