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> ww2 nazi man from Romania
Ferdinand
Posted: March 21, 2008 06:25 pm
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hi guys,

looking to some documentary i found out that some important guys from german nazi war machine were from romania:


so meet no 1:

fritz klein/ born in codlea(10 km from brasov) in 1888
dr. in auschwitz, bergen belsen....etc

[photo removed - lack of sources]

here we can see him when the british liberated bergen belsen: he was triing to pas as an inmate

[photo removed - lack of sources]

[photo removed - lack of sources]

here dr. klein doing his job when the british arrived

[photo removed - lack of sources]


no 2:

victor capesius
born in miercurea sibiului, he was a "bayern company" sales representant, and later he become ss officer and right hand of mengele/
auschwitz farmacist-responsable with cyclon b gas

[photo removed - lack of sources]



pics from internet but i have capesius in some documentary....must search to post some ore pics if anyone interested.
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Alexei2102
Posted: March 21, 2008 06:44 pm
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Many members of KZ personnel were Romanian Volksdeutsche. Dr. Klein is mentioned in Olga Lengyel's book about Auschwitz.

Cheers,

Al

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Ferdinand
Posted: March 21, 2008 06:49 pm
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yes i know, there were a lot of soldiers from ss originary from romania


did you knew that?!? :) :lol:
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Florin
Posted: April 03, 2008 06:10 am
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QUOTE (seeker @ March 21, 2008 01:49 pm)
yes i know, there were a lot of soldiers from ss originary from romania


did you knew that?!? :)  :lol:

There were at least 600,000 ethnic Germans in Romania in 1934, and this means there more in the 1940's. Of course many of them entered in SS, same as the ethnic Germans from Czechoslovakia, Poland and Yugoslavia.

The question is: How many ethnic Romanians entered in SS? There were some, most of them Romanian soldiers taken prisoners after August 23, 1944. But there were also British prisoners enrolling in SS, and fighting under Waffen SS. There were women, British citizens, who were SS guards at Ravensbruck concentration camp.
The ethnic Romanians entering in SS were less in numbers than the Belgians, French, Dutch and Norwegians entering in SS (comparing with each of them, not together).
There were Muslims from Bosnia entering in SS, and the guys from the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, Lituania), and the Spaniards from "Azul".
There were Arabs and Indians enrolled in SS.
Some sources say that 100,000 Ukrainians were in SS. While the number is arguable, still gives an idea.

To make it short: give us a break!
Why don’t you use your energy on the Jewish websites?
I can offer you a good subject for a topic there: the rich Jews who sponsored the electoral campaign of Hitler, in 1932.
Or the fact that one grandmother of Reinhard Heidrich, chief of the RSHA, was Jewish.

This post has been edited by Florin on April 03, 2008 06:16 am
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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: April 03, 2008 07:21 am
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QUOTE (seeker @ March 21, 2008 06:25 pm)
hi guys,

looking to some documentary i found out that some important guys from german nazi war machine were from romania:


so meet no 1:

fritz klein/ born in codlea(10 km from brasov) in 1888
dr. in auschwitz, bergen belsen....etc

(IMG:http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/655/fritzkleinhn2.jpg)

here we can see him when the british liberated bergen belsen: he was triing to pas as an inmate

(IMG:http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5209/frizkleincodleadrinauscqt8.jpg)

(IMG:http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6527/drkleinrq5.jpg)

here dr. klein doing his job when the british arrived

(IMG:http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5453/16genocide1gp7.jpg)


no 2:

victor capesius
born in miercurea sibiului, he was a "bayern company" sales representant, and later he become ss officer and right hand of mengele/ auschwitz farmacist-responsable with cyclon b gas

(IMG:http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7444/capesiusik2.jpg)



pics from internet but i have capesius in some documentary....must search to post some ore pics if anyone interested.

Hallo Seeker :D

I take it from your posts that this area of World War 2 military history is new to you?

Just a couple of points with regards your posts, you might state where you found the pictures, from what source.

You might also attach the original captions as yours are a bit misleading:


Photo: 1 shows him on trial, the number is to help identify him to the court, as so many people were being tried at one time and this was used so the court could identify which prisoner was which.

Photo 2: Shows him under guard of an Allied prisoner. but you caption it "here we can see him when the british liberated bergen belsen: he was triing to pas as an inmate" hard to do when he is still wearing the trousers and jackboots of a German officer.

Photo 3: the same as above.

Photo 4: which you caption as "here dr. klein doing his job when the british arrived"
is obviously showing Klein as a prisoner and being forced to either remove bodies from a mass grave, or place the bodies in a mass grave, a job that many of the German Staff were given to do once extermination Camps and Concentration Camps had been captured from the Nazi's.

He is obviously NOT doing his job, do you think in the ordinary day to day running of the camp he would get his hands dirty by coming into contact with the burial detail.

Second Person:-

"victor capesius
born in miercurea sibiului, he was a "bayern company" sales representant, and later he become ss officer and right hand of mengele/ auschwitz farmacist-responsable with cyclon b gas"

Are you stating here that Capesius was the right hand of Dr. Mengele of Auschwitz infamy? and Capesius was the Pharmacist responsible for the creation / use of Cyclon-B chemicals used as gas in the camps??

You really need to research your subject more and clearly state what its about otherwise you risk causing confusion.

Florin would you care to explain why
QUOTE
"seeker" should devote his energy to Jewish sites??


With regards your very loose statements of:
QUOTE
"But there were also British prisoners enrolling in SS, and fighting under Waffen SS."


Here you are obviously referring to members of the "British Free Corps" a unit that was created by the Germans, with intention of seeking British Prisoners of War to join up to fight the Communists on the Eastern Front, and a mission that failed mainly because of the lack of interest shown by prisoners, and the 14 - 20 who did join never saw active combat, taking every opportunity to escape from the training camp to go out and have a good time in the bars with German women, than train to fight the Soviets.
They were also used to gather the dead in Dresden after the Firebombing of the city, after this they soon lost heart in becoming allies of the Germans, who never really trusted them any way.

See the Book: RENEGADES Hitlers English Men by Adrian Wheale, ISBN 0-297-81488-5 for details,

QUOTE
There were women, British citizens, who were SS guards at Ravensbruck concentration camp.
Do please post your sources for this statement, as I recall no trial of any "British" warder who was in Ravensbruck, post WW2.

And with regards to people with Jewish family connections living in Germany, many German families had such, rich & poor including many in the Nazi Party, before the Nazi Party introduced Hitlers crazy Racial Purity Regulations it was not a crime to have Jewish connections, even Herr Schickelgrübers (Adolph Hitler) Grandfather in Austria had Jewish blood connections.

How ironic, that the icon of Nazi Racial purity, the leader of the physically perfect Ayrian "supermensch" was contaminated himself.



Kevin in Deva. :P
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Florin
Posted: April 03, 2008 01:27 pm
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QUOTE (New Connaught Ranger @ April 03, 2008 02:21 am)
QUOTE
There were women, British citizens, who were SS guards at Ravensbruck concentration camp.
Do please post your sources for this statement, as I recall no trial of any "British" warder who was in Ravensbruck, post WW2.

In the days when the American Library in Bucharest was opened to the public, and that was in 1980's...early1990's, I could find a thick and big book about WWII, with photos, printed in The United States. Not only these British women were mentioned there, but there was also a big photo, covering one page, with these British women in SS uniforms, as SS guards for Ravensbruck camp.

What I have found funny in those long lost times is that in a British book with the same subject, and printed in the same style (big and with many photos) there was no word about British citizens being in SS.
The good news is that the source exist, and because it was printed, it is in thousands of identical copies. The bad news is that I don't know the title. It was printed in the 1980's, that's for sure.

This post has been edited by Florin on April 03, 2008 01:28 pm
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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: April 03, 2008 02:27 pm
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Hallo Florin, :D

Your reply still does not verify existence of "British Female Guards", and until then I find it hard to believe, as well as for making claims the British censored the information from their big book :roll:

At most of the trials of Concentration Camp Personnel from the Camp Commanders, Administration, Staff they were tried in the presence of the Allies including the Soviets, if any "British" citizens were found especially as the Ravensbruck Camp was liberated by the Russians, great political publicity attention would have been generated at the time by Uncle Joe Stalin, and especially immediate post WW2.

Do you not also consider it strange that the British tracked down all male members of the British Free Corps and interrogated them, placed them on trial. and handed down prison sentences to those found guilty of helping the enemy, so what possible reason could they have for hiding the "British Women in the SS"??

Even more so, as among the thousands executed by the Germans at Ravensbrück were four female members of the British WWII organization Special Operations Executive:

Denise Bloch,

Cecily Lefort,

Lilian Rolfe,

and Violette Szabo,

as well as the Roman Catholic nun Élise Rivet,

Elisabeth de Rothschild,

Russian Orthodox nun St.Maria Skobtsova,

the 25-year-old French Princess Anne de Bauffremont-Courtenay,

and Olga Benário, wife of the Brazilian Communist leader Luís Carlos Prestes.

Besides the male Nazi administrators, the camp staff included over 150 female SS guards assigned to oversee the prisoners.

Ravensbrück served as a training camp for over 4,000 female overseers. The technical term for a female guard in a Nazi camp was an Aufseherin. The women either stayed in the camp or eventually served in other camps. The female chief overseers (Oberaufseherinnen) in Ravensbrück were:

* May 1939-June 1942: Johanna Langefeld, with deputy wardress Emma Zimmer.

* June 1942-October 1942: Maria Mandel, with deputy wardress Emma Zimmer.

* October 1942-April 1943: Johanna Langefeld returned, with deputy wardress.
Margarete Gallinat (who later served as head wardress at Vught).

* December 1943-December 1944 Anna-Klein Plaubel, with deputy wardress
Dorothea Binz.

* December 1944-April 1945 Luise Brunner, with deputy wardress Dorothea Binz.

Later, several women were head female guards at the same time:

* 1944: Kaethe Hoern.

* 1944: Hildegard Neumann.

* 1944: Else Weber.

Most of these women went on to serve as chief wardresses in other camps. Other high ranking SS women included Greta Boesel, Margot Dreschel, Elisabeth Kammer, and head wardress at the Uckermark death complex of Ravensbrück was Ruth Closius (January 1945-March 1945).

The treatment by the S.S. women in Ravensbrück was normally brutal. Elfriede Muller, an SS Aufseherin in the camp was so harsh that the prisoners nicknamed her "The Beast of Ravensbrück."

In 1973 the United States government extradited Hermine Braunsteiner, for trial in Germany for war crimes.

In 2006 the United States government expelled Elfriede Rinkel, an 84 year-old woman who had resided in San Francisco since 1959. It was discovered that she had been a guard at Ravensbrück from 1944 to 1945.

Renewed attention and interest in the camp came about following the Düsseldorf War Crimes Trials, or the Majdanek Trial, which began in 1976.

Amongst the most notorious of those placed on trial was a guard supervisor at Ravensbrück, Hermine Braunsteiner, who had been tracked down by the famous Nazi-hunter, Simon Wiesenthal.

Numerous witnesses from Ravensbrück identified her as the pale, blue-eyed, six-foot tall blonde, called "The Stomping Mare" because of her penchant for killing children by trampling them, often in front of their mothers.

In 1981, the then 61-year-old woman was sentenced to life imprisonment for numerous child murders and other brutal crimes. Other guards were tried at the Auschwitz Trial, Belsen Trial, Ravensbrück Trials or in individual trials:

* Erika Bergmann.

* Margarete Bisaecke.

* Juana Bormann.

* Herta Bothe.

* Therese Brandl.

* Herta Ehlert.

* Wilma Fath.

* Irma Grese.

* Ruth Hildner.

* Ulla Erna Frieda Juerss.

* Elisabeth Lupka.

* Elfriede Mohnecke.

* Margarete Rabe.

* Elisabeth Volkenrath.

* Emma Zimmer.

These were a few of the guards tried for war crimes at Ravensbrück, and at other camps at which they served.

Information on these guards, with the exceptions of Suze Arts and Elisabeth Lupka, was obtained from Daniel Patrick Brown's book, THE CAMP WOMEN: The Female Auxiliaries Who Assisted the SS in Running the Concentration Camp System.

Kevin in Deva. :)

This post has been edited by New Connaught Ranger on April 03, 2008 03:20 pm
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Ferdinand
Posted: April 05, 2008 12:14 pm
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hi kevin

the pictures that i've posted are from internet research, and i had them saved to my computer for some time.

this are, if you look carrefully is for members of ss coming from romania ;)


regarding dr klein.....his number at the trial of bergen belsen was nr 2, no 1 was Commandant Josef Kramer....they were both hanged on 13 dec 1945.

regarding victor capesius, i did not said that he created cyklon b gas, but he was the right hand of mengele.---source-----frankfurt nazi trial documentary----witness from camp said that he was selecting twins for mengele.


florin


i had in my family a waffen ss member, alex can post the picture with him.
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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: April 06, 2008 07:26 pm
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Hallo seeker, :D

when posting, pictures and information its up to the poster to make it clear what he is posting, I know English is not your first language but there are some very basic rules that need to be followed, and I would be glad to help if you require it.

The following:

QUOTE
victor capesius
born in miercurea sibiului, he was a "bayern company" sales representant, and later he become ss officer and right hand of mengele/ auschwitz farmacist-responsable with cyclon b gas


makes very little sense because of the poor grammar and punctuation:

Victor Capesius, all names in english are written with a Capital letter at the start.

Born in: Miercurea Sibiului*.

He was a Bayern Company" sales representative.

Later, he became a S.S. officer, and the right-hand (man) of Dr. Joseph Mengele.

Auschwitz Pharmacist, responsible for making Zyklon-B gas.**

* = two words, do the words mean he was born in Miercure near Sibiu?? or the two words are the same location, information not very clear to a none Romanian person.

** more confusion here, as with the way it is written its unclear who you claim was the Auschwitz Pharmacist, Mengele or Victor Capesius, and who was responsible for developing the Zyklon-B gas.

Which is totally incorrect if you care to read the following:

Ironically, Zyklon B was originally developed as a pesticide by Fritz Haber, a German Jew who emigrated in 1933. It was first produced in World War I by TASCH (Technischer Ausschuss für Schädlingsbekämpfung, or Technical Committee for Pest Control) as a delousing agent.

Out of TASCH emerged DEGESCH (Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung mbH, or German Corporation for Pest Control), which played a key role in the manufacturing of Zyklon B in World War II.

Many German companies had a stake in DEGESCH, but all eventually sold their shares to the chemical giant Degussa in the early 1920s. Degussa developed the process to manufacture Zyklon B in "crystals" (actually silica-gell absorbent chunks), as it was used during World War II.

To raise capital, Degussa split its controlling interest of DEGESCH with IG Farben in 1930: both companies held a 42.5% share in DEGESCH, with the remaining 15% held by the Th. Goldschmidt AG of Essen.

DEGESCH's role at this point was limited to acquiring patents and intellectual properties: it did not itself produce Zyklon B. The manufacture of Zyklon B was handled by the Dessauer Werke für Zucker and Chemische Werke, which acquired the stabilizer from IG Farben, the warning agent from Schering AG and the prussic acid from Dessauer Schlempe and assembled them into the final product.

This company extracted prussic acid from the waste products of the sugar beet refining process. From 1943 to 1945, the Kaliwerken, from the Czech town of Kolin, also supplied prussic acid to the Dessauer Werke. When Zyklon B became used in the gas chambers, the Nazis ordered the warning agent removed.

Upon production, Zyklon B was sold by Degesch to Degussa. To cut costs, Degussa sold the marketing rights of Zyklon B to two intermediaries: the Heerdt and Linger GmbH (Heli) and Tesch and Stabenow (Tesch und Stabenow, Internationale Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung m.b.H., or Testa) of Hamburg.
Both suppliers split their territory along the Elbe river, with Heli handling the clients to the west and Testa doing the same in the east.

Zyklon B is still in production in the Czech Republic in the factory Draslovka Kolín a.s. in the city Kolín under the tradename Uragan D2, sold for eradicating insects and small animals.

Kevin in Deva

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Bernard Miclescu
Posted: April 07, 2008 07:39 am
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QUOTE (Florin @ April 03, 2008 08:10 am)
Or the fact that one grandmother of Reinhard Heidrich, chief of the RSHA, was Jewish.

Hello Florin,

I already read about this fact but i thought it was only a presumption. If possible, what is your source. Mine is one of the Sven Hassel novel.

Thanks,
BM
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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: April 07, 2008 09:46 am
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Sven Hassel:lol: was a Danish Petty Criminal, and informer to the Danish version of the Gestapo, an outright liar, who never served in the German Armed Forces.
He never could explain how he came to be on various Fronts in the Eastern Campaign, France, Italy sometimes at the same time if you check the historical dates of his claims.

He is NOT what one could call a very reliable historical expert with his story lines or fantastic claims.

See:
http://home.tiscali.dk/haaest/Hassel-Hazel...ish/00table.htm

Kevin in Deva. :D

This post has been edited by New Connaught Ranger on April 07, 2008 10:22 am
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Ferdinand
Posted: April 07, 2008 10:23 am
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QUOTE (New Connaught Ranger @ April 06, 2008 07:26 pm)



makes very little sense because of the poor grammar and punctuation:

Victor Capesius, all names in english are written with a Capital letter at the start.

Born in: Miercurea Sibiului*.

He was a Bayern Company" sales representative.

Later, he became a S.S. officer, and the right-hand (man) of Dr. Joseph Mengele.

Auschwitz Pharmacist, responsible for making Zyklon-B gas.**

* = two words, do the words mean he was born in Miercure near Sibiu?? or the two words are the same location, information not very clear to a none Romanian person.

** more confusion here, as with the way it is written its unclear who you claim was  the Auschwitz Pharmacist, Mengele or Victor Capesius, and who was responsible for developing the Zyklon-B gas.


hi kevin!

first of all i want to thank you for the english grammar lessons. but you must consider this:

1. i'm sorry if my english is so bad

2. in all my posts i write with no Capital letters, i consider that the message is important not the grammar(also it's not disrespect from me)

3.place of birth is MIERCUREA SIBIULUI
http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miercurea_Sibiului

4. i don't understand what is so unclear since i wrote that he was responsable with the gas. i allready gave answer that capesius WAS NOT the developer of cyclon b gas!!!!!!!!

i don't know if i understood correctly, you were in the army? if you were responsable with the auto park, does this mean that you have to build all the trucks and all the other machinery??

5. he was farmacist in birkenau until feb. '44, after this date he was "zusammenarbeitete "(co-worker) to dr. mengele, in the sellection for experiments.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Capesius

6. and last..... search it on google as everybody does to check out the info's. ;)

florin in brasov

This post has been edited by seeker on April 07, 2008 10:24 am
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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: April 07, 2008 04:07 pm
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QUOTE
2. in all my posts i write with no Capital letters, i consider that the message is important not the grammar(also it's not disrespect from me).


By doing that, you increase the chance of spreading misinformation and misunderstanding, which is not the purpose of a Forum dedicated to understanding Military history.

Kevin in Deva. :D
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Ferdinand
Posted: April 07, 2008 04:31 pm
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i made this post, for all those who have pics with romanians involved in nazi organizations, to post them and share the stories.

gruss dich!
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Florin
Posted: April 08, 2008 02:52 am
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QUOTE (Bernard Miclescu @ April 07, 2008 02:39 am)
QUOTE (Florin @ April 03, 2008 08:10 am)
Or the fact that one grandmother of Reinhard Heidrich, chief of the RSHA, was Jewish.

Hello Florin,

I already read about this fact but i thought it was only a presumption. If possible, what is your source. Mine is one of the Sven Hassel novel.

Thanks,
BM

Hi Bernard,

I owe you an answer. My source is Sven Hassel, too. It was in the novel "General SS".
I read everything translated in Romanian by him, and all his work was translated in Romanian, after 1990.

First of all, his books are novels, and not intended to be reference source for historians, or amateur historians. A novel written with narrator as personage is still a novel – there are so many available examples.

Now, considering the historic information included in his books... I would label it as a mixture of credible facts with non-credible facts. Many things mentioned by him obviously "do not fit in". Others make sense, when you read them.
I took the personal decision to consider the information about the Jewish grandmother of Reinhart Heidrich as something credible enough to include it in my angry message toward "seeker". If I would publish a book, I would think twice, but for "seeker" and for my angry message to him, it was acceptable.

I am wondering if Kevin read the novels of Sven Hassel. I carefully read the Internet link he presented.
The biggest problems of author Erik Haaest were not from his book against Sven Hassel, but because he tried to uncover the past of other people involved in collaboration with Nazi authorities.
The books of Sven Hassel may be a mixture of lies with true facts, but they are not a pro-Nazi propaganda, and their message is that war is a bad thing, in all its forms, and the author mentions the ugliness of war directly – it is not left for the reader to guess it.
These books are a stronger anti-war message than many other novels much better and much more famous, and that is what matters eventually. The more anti-war novels we have, the better, especially when we still have today nations ready to jump like a flock of sheep to invade other countries (war against Iraq, for example).

As a personal opinion, I think the abundance of information enough to fill 14 books was obtained from chatter with other war prisoners. Sven Hassel was war prisoner in 1945, and he later used for personal interest the stories heard from others from the prisoner camp. But you know how it goes with gossip and chatter – not everything you hear is true.

This post has been edited by Florin on April 08, 2008 01:39 pm
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