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> Restoring romanian helmets for reenactment, Paint and interior
mihnea
Posted: February 17, 2008 08:31 pm
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Last year before the action at Orechov I decided to repaint my two refurbished Dutch helmets (bought from Belgium) and I stumbled on a small problem identifying the correct Romanian color used in WWII. I tried picking a ral color (I picked 6002) as it would make it easier to be replicated but I have doubts that the color I picked is correct or even close although I had a helmet with original paint with me (the problem is that the color samples are very small and paint on a helmet looks different then the paint on a 2x4cm sample). Another problem is that the paint changes to a lighter color if it's covert with satin clear coat. There was a third helmet that was repainted for Orechov this time a Romanian one that was in a bad shape I also added to it a new chinstrap and now a repro interior.

These are the pictures of the helmets (unfortunately I run out of satin clear coat after one helmet); the satin one was not used at Orechov 2007.

(IMG:http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6347/p1010049aho6.th.jpg)
The lighter helmets I'm talking about.

(IMG:http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/324/p1010007vq8.th.jpg)
From left to right: the helmet I used to try copy the paint (has the original paint and German liner) and the first two painted helmets the one on the left has the satin clear coat.

(IMG:http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1269/zp1010001er8.th.jpg)
Again the two painted helmets.

As I'm preparing to paint a bigger number of helmets (six helmets) I'm tiring to find the correct shade of green-kaki.

Here is a strange kaki helmet that I bought together with some other Romanian helmets very probably from a military unit all with original Dutch liners.
(IMG:http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/2448/p1010001qw6.th.jpg) (IMG:http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9841/p1010002pc6.th.jpg)
I intend to paint a helmet for me in this color as I like this color a lot :P
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mihnea
Posted: February 17, 2008 08:38 pm
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From period black and white pictures can only be established that the helmets were painted with a light shade of satin paint and that the ones with the cipher had the inside of the cipher painted black the. I'm only referring to the pictures from the beginning of the war and the early parades in witch the helmet are in good condition.

I wander if the Dutch used a similar color or more correctly if the Romanian helmets used the same color as the Dutch helmets
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sid guttridge
Posted: February 19, 2008 10:41 am
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Hi Mihnea,

Doesn't the MMN have any Romanian Dutch-pattern helmets on display from which you can gauge the correct colour?

There seem to be quite a number of original Dutch helmets available in London. A couple of years ago I went into a militaria shop south of Peckham and they had four or five. All were painted black, apparently because they had been used by Luftwaffe Flak crews.

Cheers,

Sid.
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Cantacuzino
Posted: February 19, 2008 12:17 pm
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QUOTE
Doesn't the MMN have any Romanian Dutch-pattern helmets on display from which you can gauge the correct colour?



I remember that was on display (at MMN) the original (Dutch) helmet of Carol II in perfect condition.
Mihnea why you said green-kaky for romanian camo.
Kaky color is a shade of light brown (see polish and english camo).
In my opinion romanian camo is more close to light olive-green. :roll:
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mihnea
Posted: February 19, 2008 01:05 pm
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I have 4 helmets that are in good condition with original pain but generally the paint on the outside of the helmet changes after 60 years from sunlight and light in general. When I first tried to match the paint I used the inside of a helmet, under the liner. The inside of the helmet is generally in good condition with original pain and marking like the acceptance stamp and the name of the soldier that used it.

No helmet is in mint condition unless it was in a sealed dark box for 60 years.

I meant olive-green, my mistake.

The black and dark grey Dutch helmets are post war refurbished helmets made for the Dutch police (they generally have new liners and were completely stripped of the original paint). I have two bought from Belgium (Wings and wheels 2006) they were cheap and the seller had many, he told me they were refurbished for the Dutch police.
(IMG:http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4949/p1010002kq6.th.jpg)


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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: February 19, 2008 04:11 pm
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No matter how much you try to identify the exact shade it is virtually impossible to replicate it, because of the following reasons.

A comparison to helmets in b&w pictures, you can only guess at the shade being shown and remember some colours are even reversed in b&w pictures light colours showing up dark etc..

A comparison to helmets in wartime colour pictures, (even in magazines like Signal, etc..) you can only guess at the exact shade being shown, as it depends on the exact chemical process used in the developing and the exact shades of colour used in the original printing process during WW2.

Even when applied to the helmet back then there were subtle differences in factory batches, add to this what the original base colour was, grey primer, green primer etc. .

The way the paint was thinned for application, water or petrol, white spirit.

The way the paint was applied, by brush or spray.

In the field application, added layers of colour etc.. etc..

Fair wear and tear, use in the field, weathering effects etc.. etc..

I believe it will never entirely be replicated to an Exact shade as nobody then had an exact uniform shade to start with.

So you should paint it with a shade of colour you feel happy with, and if any "armchair experts" want to contradict you,

A, ask them to prove conclusively their claims.

B, tell them to get a time machine to go back to the period to confirm it.

C, tell them to take a long walk on a short roof. :lol:

Kevin in Deva. :D

off topic:


(IMG:http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4748/p1010049aho6ale9.jpg)
PS: Speaking of time machines. . . . American Jungle Boots!! naughty Boy :lol:

This post has been edited by New Connaught Ranger on February 19, 2008 04:18 pm
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darius1941
Posted: February 22, 2008 08:59 am
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If someone can come up with a color close enuff to the original and one that we can do here in the states,then please let us know the contents of the mix and,or
the maker of the color if it can be bought.
Nothing is perfect in reenacting and we will never have that 100% perfect score but we keep trying too reach that mark.
I work as a printer and I have to mix inks for different orders and even if I follow the same direction time and time again there is always that slight different in each batch of color I mix.
The customer dose not really notice the difference as it is so slight.
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BrunoGunn
Posted: January 23, 2009 08:12 pm
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It’s almost 1 year since the last post in this topic, has anyone come up with a color close to correct to repaint the Romanian helmets, I recently found one that had 5 different coats of paint ranging from a light olive, to red, most later were layers sloppily brush painted with multiple runs and sags… I ended up stripping and bead blasting to remove the rust that was under the first layer of paint, it’s been primed, where do I go from here to make it a proper looking Romanian helmet?
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mathieu
Posted: November 29, 2009 06:17 pm
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Hello,

Interesting subject! As far as I know the helmets delivered before the war to the Romanian had exactly the same colour as these delivered to the Dutch. If someone need a Dutch helmet you might have a look at www.marktplaats.nl
If you copie "Nederlandse helm" in the search field and press ZOEK ( means search) and you wil find several helmets.
Some examples:
http://link.marktplaats.nl/299216974
http://link.marktplaats.nl/298130113
http://link.marktplaats.nl/295227911

Regards,

Mathieu.

This post has been edited by mathieu on November 29, 2009 06:18 pm
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