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> Romanian Police Uniforms?, Illustrator seeks reference material
chrisUK
Posted: January 21, 2008 09:50 am
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Hi everybody,

I've been viewing the site for a short while, and its been a great help in illustrating a project I'm working on set in Romania during World War 2. My question doesn't directly relate to the Army, but to the Police. I hope that's okay. If anyone has any objections to my posting the question here, then of course I'll delete the thread, but my understanding is that the Police service was militarised in Romania, so I hope my question is acceptable ... :)

Thanks to all the contributors to this site, I've found great reference material on Army uniforms, but I am still searching for reference images of Romanian Police uniforms at the time.

Does anybody have any information on how similar Police uniforms were to army uniforms and does anybody have any pictures to post here or can you direct me to any pictures online?

Ideally, I would like images of the the lowest rank uniform and a middle-ranking officer. I understand that there were separate forces for the cities and the countryside at this time. It is the City Police I am interested in. If anybody can explain the ranking system to me too, I would also be extremely grateful.

Many thanks in advance...
Chris
-in the UK.
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chrisUK
Posted: January 22, 2008 06:11 pm
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After some further research, I think I have found two reference pictures for Romanian Police officers of the inter-war period. Can anyone confirm these are policeman in the pictures, and not a member of other military forces?

If so, could anyone tell me what the cap badge is? I'd be very grateful for any further advice or information.

http://www.galeriart.ro/Up/ProdImages/NMP_...old_02353_b.jpg

http://www.galeriart.ro/Up/ProdImages/NMP_...old_02362_b.jpg

This post has been edited by chrisUK on January 22, 2008 06:14 pm
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Dénes
Posted: January 22, 2008 07:54 pm
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QUOTE (chrisUK @ January 23, 2008 12:11 am)
http://www.galeriart.ro/Up/ProdImages/NMP_...old_02362_b.jpg

What could be the explanation to the second photo? Don't drink and drive, otherwise you will be arrested? :)

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on January 22, 2008 07:55 pm
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21 inf
Posted: January 22, 2008 08:05 pm
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I like how the policeman guards the guy with bayonet on! :D
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Kepi
Posted: January 23, 2008 06:28 am
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QUOTE (chrisUK @ January 22, 2008 06:11 pm)
After some further research, I think I have found two reference pictures for Romanian Police officers of the inter-war period.  Can anyone confirm these are policeman in the pictures, and not a member of other military forces?

If so, could anyone tell me what the cap badge is? I'd be very grateful for any further advice or information.

http://www.galeriart.ro/Up/ProdImages/NMP_...old_02353_b.jpg

http://www.galeriart.ro/Up/ProdImages/NMP_...old_02362_b.jpg

Unfortunately, none of the uniformed people of the two photos are policemen.

In the first photo there is a Second lieutenant of the Romanian Air Force, of early 1930s according his uniform, in a fair.

In the second photo is a gendarme of the Foot Gendarmes Regiment escorting a driver who committed some traffic offence, from post to post, towards his home. This was a kind of punishment for light offences, to submit the convict to the public opprobrium.

Until 1948 in Romania the police operates only in towns and cities. In villages it was the Rural Gendarmerie Corps. Gendarmes were miltary and the police was a civilian force. There were two kinds of policemen.

The Police officers, having the ranks of: “Agent administrativ”, “Comisar ajutor”, “Comisar”, Comisar sef”, “Secretar chestor”, “Chestor”, “Secretar general”, “Prefect”. They wore black civilian style uniforms with peaked caps, white shirt and black tie, white silk aiguillettes on the right shoulder. The ranks were represented by embroidered five pointed stars on the shoulder straps and cuffs. Police officers only investigate crimes.

The public force was represented by the Corps of Public Guardians (“Corpul Gardienilor Publici”). They had brown military style uniforms with dark red piping and white aiguillettes on the right shoulder. Their hierarchy was as fallows: “Gardian clasa III”, “Gardian clasaII”, “Gardian clasa I”, “Sef de detasament clasa II”, “Sef de detasament clasa I”.

This post has been edited by Kepi on January 23, 2008 06:29 am
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chrisUK
Posted: January 23, 2008 03:28 pm
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Hi Kepi,

-and many thanks for all the detail. That's wonderful.

I've tried to work from your description, and - although its not complete yet - this is my image so far.

[pic deleted]

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to let me know if I am on the right path???

Thanks again.
Chris.

This post has been edited by chrisUK on January 25, 2008 08:27 am
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Cristian
Posted: January 23, 2008 08:01 pm
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chrisUK
Posted: January 23, 2008 10:43 pm
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Thanks Cristian.

The links were extremely useful, - The Agent Museum has a picture of a uniform that matches Kepi's description exactly, although the styling of the suit suggests a later date and the insignia on the cap appears to be from the Communist Era.

I've used the information from you both to complete my image. I'm still not sure what the cap-badge should be, so used a version of the Royal emblem. Also, I still need to convert the single breasted jacket to a double-breasted jacket. But with the information I've learned today, this is the result so far:


[pic deleted]

I realise its not a 100% accurate, but I am happy that is rather close. Many thanks for the help.

This post has been edited by chrisUK on January 25, 2008 08:28 am
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Theodor
Posted: January 24, 2008 06:21 am
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A Police Officer must be a bit better shaved :D
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Kepi
Posted: January 24, 2008 09:19 am
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A few images presenting Police uniforms of the interwars period.

(IMG:http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8151/police1ane6.th.jpg) (IMG:http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5519/police4ado4.th.jpg)
(Images from the book: Ion Daschevici, Istoricul resedintelor politiei capitalei, Bucuresti, 1935)

(IMG:http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8963/uniformepolitie1929ld9.th.jpg)

Romanian Police uniforms of 1930s and 1940s. Police officer uniform (Fig.A), Public Guardians commander uniform (Fig. B ), Public Guardian uniform (Fig.C), with a spiked helmet for full dress.

(IMG:http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8575/gardianpublic1sp1.th.jpg)

Public Guardian in the 1930s.

(IMG:http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/1237/emblemasapca1kr6.th.jpg)

Detail of the peaked cap badge (gold for officers and yellow silk for guardians). :D
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New Connaught Ranger
Posted: January 24, 2008 10:29 am
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Hallo Gents,

maybe you could try contacting the Romanian Police Museum for info?:

see link:

http://www.politiaromana.ro/Engleza/romani...lice_museum.htm

Kevin in Deva. :D :D
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chrisUK
Posted: January 24, 2008 05:46 pm
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Thanks very much, Kepi, those photographs are amazing, just what I needed. Thank you so much for going to so much effort. I'm very grateful.

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chrisUK
Posted: January 24, 2008 07:25 pm
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Another (hopefully final!) question... I see the public guardian is armed with a truncheon (baston) but I don't see a holster in any of the pictures. Were the Police and Public Guardians armed?
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chrisUK
Posted: January 24, 2008 09:24 pm
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Here are the final versions... thanks for the assistance.

(IMG:http://www.b3tards.com/u/174a3872d5e7e2772ba1/politist3-fullength-final.jpg)

This post has been edited by chrisUK on January 25, 2008 08:28 am
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Kepi
Posted: January 25, 2008 07:49 am
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Congratulation for the reconstruction of a Romanian Police Officer (“Comisar ajutor” – one golden five pointed star) image! :D

However, there are some small errors on your reconstruction:
- The cap should have a false chinstrap, in black leather, edged with a thin gold lace:
- The white aiguillettes laces were not knotted and were carried in the normal way, horizontally, fastened under the right lapel of the coat.
- The shoulder straps were edged gold, as the cuffs;
- The rank five pointed stars should be smaller;
- And not the least, the face (and hair) of the officer is too modern for a person of the 1930s. ;)
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