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> whose idea was this?, romanian language
cainele_franctiror
Posted: March 30, 2008 08:08 pm
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misto is a gipsy word
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21 inf
Posted: March 31, 2008 02:20 am
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QUOTE (Bernard Miclescu @ March 30, 2008 08:50 am)
N. Djuvara has an interesting explanation about the walachs. It seems that a celtic people, the walchs, that lived in the nowdays territory of Switzerland, became vassals of the Romans. Since then, the german and other celtic peoples called all the celts beeing allies with the romans walchs. Today we can find some approaches in two land names : WALES and WALLONIA (french speaking -- wallonian belgians). To see more: "Istoria romanilor povestita celor tineri" Humanitas.

German tribes named all roman (romanised) populations as "wallach", with all derivates: wlach, wolloch and so on. "Wallach" ment initially "romanic speaking people".
Finally, romanian population retained the name "valach", "voloh".

It is significant that the name "valach" given to romanians was given by a foreign population, because romanian never called themselves "valah(s)". Instead, they called themselved "rumanian", "romanian" when speaking about themselves.

N. Djuvara is trying to offer an alternative romanian history, forcing a little bit the origins of romanians as being descendents of pecenegs and/or cumans, which is not sustained with arguments, since the last 2 populations are turcic populations.
Pecenegs and cumans lived in the todays teritory of Romania for some centuries side by side with romanians, until XIIIth century.

To cite at least one source for lingvistic arguments: academician Marius Sala, Bucharest University.
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sid guttridge
Posted: March 31, 2008 12:46 pm
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Hi Guys,

There is no plausible lineal descent between "Wallach" and "Welsh".

"Welsh" is what the English call the people of Wales. They call themselves something like "Cymri". (That needs double checking).

There were Dacian units in Roman Britain, but they are4 last recorded a good century before the English arrived. I don't think the "Noticia Dignitatum" is likely to mention either Welsh or Wallachians because the Lartin language had no W.

Cheers,

Sid.
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Bernard Miclescu
Posted: March 31, 2008 04:42 pm
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QUOTE (21 inf @ March 31, 2008 04:20 am)


N. Djuvara is trying to offer an alternative romanian history, forcing a little bit the origins of romanians as being descendents of pecenegs and/or cumans, which is not sustained with arguments, since the last 2 populations are turcic populations.
Pecenegs and cumans lived in the todays teritory of Romania for some centuries side by side with romanians, until XIIIth century.


Well, N Djuvara doesn't say that today's Romanian people is directly descendent from the cumans. He is just saying that we don't have to subestimate (as Romanian history does today) the important role that they had before the "birth" of Wallachia and Moldavia.

His arguments are quite credible, even if i do not know Mr Sala's theory.

BM

This post has been edited by Bernard Miclescu on April 01, 2008 01:06 pm
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Kepi
Posted: March 31, 2008 05:01 pm
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QUOTE (sid guttridge @ March 31, 2008 12:46 pm)
Hi Guys,

There is no plausible lineal descent between "Wallach" and "Welsh".

"Welsh" is what the English call the people of Wales. They call themselves something like "Cymri". (That needs double checking).

There were Dacian units in Roman Britain, but they are4 last recorded a good century before the English arrived. I don't think the "Noticia Dignitatum" is likely to mention either Welsh or Wallachians because the Lartin language had no W.

Cheers,

Sid.

Concerning the origin of Wallachian/Wallonian/Welsh... names, an interesting theory could be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_term_Vlach

I think most probably it was a germanic/slav designation for people who spoke a kind of latin language. :huh:
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Bernard Miclescu
Posted: April 01, 2008 01:05 pm
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A friend of mine found these dacian troops in the Roman Empire. No legions...

under Traian (Trajan in French): "Ala I Ulpia Dacorum/Cappadocia" and "Cohors I Ulpia Dacorum/Syria"
under Hadrian: "Cohors I Aelia Dacorum/Brittania"
under Marcus Aurelius: "Cohors II Aurelia Dacorum"/ ???
Trere is also the "Cohors II Augusta Dacorum", probably a second "cohors" under Hadrian;
under Septimus Severus: "Cohors Gemina Dacorum milliaria" in Moesia Inferior/Montana.

In the early Byzantin period an irregular Dacian corp -- "numerus", can be found in Syria.

BM
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mele22
Posted: April 08, 2008 09:45 pm
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Mr. BM, there certainly were even more troops in the Roman army that wore such names, but you must know that it didn't always mean they were ethnic Dacians. Many army corps were named that way in honour of their victories, or simply for having been mobilized in a certain province for a long time. We should also keep in mind that Dacia was one of the most heavily militarized Roman provinces, and violence was far from over after Trajan's Dacian wars (Dacia also had the longest border with the barbarians in Europe).

All in all, history is a very versatile science, especially ancient history, always exposed to multiple interpretations (not excluding misinterpretations).
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Kosmo
Posted: April 09, 2008 10:53 am
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Djuvara does NOT claim cumanian origins for romanians, but for many among the boyar elite at the times of the founding of the 2 states including for the Basarab family.

Roman legions were made from roman citizens so they could not have tribal names. This were only for auxilliaries and generally reflected the area of recruitment. Still, a soldier recruited in Dacia could be a non-citizen colonist.

For the later empire the term dacian refered to the Dacia provinces south of Danube established by Aurelian.
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Ruy Aballe
Posted: April 18, 2008 06:17 pm
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Just a small correction: in Portugal, "yes" and "no" are "sim" and "não", i.e. similar but not identical to "si" and "no" in Spanish (Castillian) and Italian.
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virg
Posted: June 02, 2008 10:29 pm
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How do we account for the unusual accents and sounds in the French language. Is there anything else like it?
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Amicus_Plato
Posted: January 09, 2011 01:24 pm
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QUOTE
Did one know that some words entered from in romanian directly from latin, others from latin by albanian, others were "borowed again" after a use straight from latin in romanian by french or italian "filiera".


There is no Latin word in Romanian taken from Albanian (and the situation would be meaningless in itself), on the contrary there are Latin words in Albanian taken from Romanian. The Latin words in Romanian are either inherited (not "borrowed") from Vulgar Latin or borrowed (especially in the XIXth century) from Classic Latin or from Romance languages (French, and in a lesser degree Italian).

QUOTE
In this way, there are some words in romanian that are at first sight borrowed from slavic language, but few know that initially the word was actually used in protoromanian, adopted by slavs and finally romanians borrowed from slav language in a way "slavised".

Probably that's why in some many eastern languages a word has a so common presence, as "branza"..


"Brânza" is one of the words related to a pastoral tradition which predates both Latin and Slavic as spoken languages in the area. It is almost impossible to identify their source (language of origin), as our knowledge is very limited in this regard. The fact that the old Romanian name was "brândza", with "dz" which originates from "d" (as in many other cases), makes me to think that the Slavic languages took it from Romanian.

This post has been edited by Amicus_Plato on January 09, 2011 04:19 pm
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Amicus_Plato
Posted: January 09, 2011 01:38 pm
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QUOTE (Kosmo @ April 09, 2008 10:53 am)
For the later empire the term dacian refered to the Dacia provinces south of Danube established by Aurelian.

I completely agree. It referred to people from Dacia Mediterranea or Dacia Ripensis. On the other hand "Dacian" meant in those times the place of origin (i.e. from Dacia), not a certain ethnicity.
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chisi
Posted: February 22, 2011 07:22 pm
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Hey, we, romanians, have a lot of words of slavic and albanian origin, we like it or not.
And "da" comes from slavic in the first time, not from celts.
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Florin
Posted: February 24, 2011 03:46 am
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When I was in primary school and high school, I could witness in the language the expression "I-a mardit una" / "I-am mardit una", which can be translated only by its meaning. It meant "He kicked one hit in his jaw / head" / "I kicked one hit in his jaw / head".

Many years later, after using Internet in the U.S., I learned about the German self propelled gun "Marder", which was issued to the Romanian Army as well. The verb "a mardi" or "a mardit" cannot be found in a Romanian dictionary (maybe only in "Dictionar de argou", published before 1989; also, I may be wrong with this title).
I guess its usage started after the Romanian soldiers witnessed the "Marder" in action.

This post has been edited by Florin on February 24, 2011 03:49 am
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Radub
Posted: February 24, 2011 10:28 pm
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QUOTE (Florin @ February 24, 2011 03:46 am)
The verb "a mardi" or "a mardit" cannot be found in a Romanian dictionary (maybe only in "Dictionar de argou", published before 1989; also, I may be wrong with this title).
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