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> Romanian Supersonic Program
lancer_two_one
Posted: November 04, 2007 09:53 am
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Among other aerospace Programs, Romania had for years working on
developing a suspersonic domestic fighter.

The start date of this ambitious task is buried somewhere in the
archives, but to me it seems it could be dated in the first years of
development of the subsonic Program, better known as YUROM (to reflect
the partnership with Yugoslavia). Therefore I would date this back in the
early seventies.

As the subsonic aircraft baptized IAR-93 in Romania and Orao (Eagle)
in Yugoslavia, had a certain resemblance with the Anglo-French
Jaguar, the supersonic one named IAR-95 was drawing a lot of
influence from the general architecture of the newly emerging (at
those times) F-16.

While the work on airframe design was progressing, a deadlock was hit
on the engine side. The design work was practically done around a
military version of the RR-Spey engine, for which Romania had hopes
to get the license to manufacture or at least the approval to buy.
It is difficult today to understand why the decision to build
something around "the bird on the fence" was taken by the ones in
charge.

It may have very well been one of the many aberrations that plagued
Romanian economy, or who knows, who may have boost the hope that
based on Romania's distinct position in the Eastern Block, a favor
would be made. Not only me, but people closer to the events I talked
with, found incomprehensible such an anomalous approach. It was an
anomaly, because part of the NATO's adversary alliance, Romania was
subjected to technology transfer restrictions.

The restriction in cause was a ban on any technology transfer or
military engine sells with a thrust in excess of 1,000 lb.

However, in the late seventies, early eighties, based on "genial
decisions" and "precious indications", part of a disastrous
determination of building everything in-country, from the cheapest
connector or relay to complex weapon systems, the work for the
Romanian supersonic got a fresh spin. This was the IAR-S, aimed to be
build around the R-29-300 engine, found in Romania on the MiG-23MF
fighters.

A nice looking scaled mock-up of this aircraft was exposed for years
at the main entrance in INCREST (Ro R&D facility for aerospace). It was
a canard configuration, significantly resembling with the SAAB 37 Viggen.
To fulfill this Program, a Deparment of INCREST was tasked with engine
assimilation, while the main sensor for such an aircraft, the radar was
put on URA Bacau (today AEROSTAR) R&D plan. Again, as in the engine's
case, it was the MiG-23MF that was used as a benchmark for the newly to
be developed radar of IAR-S. Since there was no significant progress on
neither of these two Program branches (engine and radar), and due to
the general unhealthy state of Romanian economy, sometime in
the mid eighties the Supersonic Program was put indefinitely on-hold.

One could say that there were other countries that had to
drop their supersonic fighter Program (Israel is one of them, the
Sweeds had eventually to re-course to an alliance with BAE, even for
the Russians it became more difficult since mid eighties to develop
and field a new fighter), therfore it would have been quite rational
that Romaina did the same. Practically, to me, it was just a huge
risk that drained a lot of resources which could have been spent
better in other directions, to finalize other projects which
died unborn or immatured. As it happened, it can not help more than
feeding, on one hand the records that Romania tried to develop a supersonic
aircraft around the eighties and, on the other hand the pride of few people,
with no impact or gains for future developments.

Sorin
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Florin
Posted: November 05, 2007 04:07 pm
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In 1989, when the old style Communists were still ruling Romania, the aeronautical engineers in the aviation factory in Bacau were developing a concept for a Romanian supersonic fighter. I don't know if they finished an operational prototype before December 1989.

After December 1989 most research projects, civil and military, were abandoned. Many Romanian military engineers and scientists migrated to the Western countries in the 1990's. As a symbol of this prolonged decay, the factory in Bacau which once tried to develop a supersonic plane ended in manufacturing the 1:1 scale replica of the FW-190, a piston propelled WWII plane.
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lancer_two_one
Posted: November 06, 2007 01:39 am
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Salut Florin,

There was no supersonic Program that Bacau was involved in in '89. Bacau was mainly a facility for overhauling aircraft and engines. As for production Bacau had the Yak-52 (a small piston engined training a/c) and a truck mounted rocket launcher. Bacau was also responsible for most of the hydraulics and landing gears of a/c produced in Ro.

At the a/c level, Bacau did not have responsibilities for (any) a/c development, however was involved in a subcontracting role for an anti-ship missile. This missile had wings, and I supposed that this could be the source of your confusion. However, even that missile was subsonic; for someone with aerodynamics knowledge this would have been obvious just looking at those wings.

The only combat aircraft Program that Bacau was involved with at the aircraft level was IAR-93. The IAR-93 prototype was build there in the early '70. You probably know that that prototype had its maiden flight in '74. Then everything related to new combat aircraft production was moved to the then newly built facility at Craiova.

Otherwise, with your second paragraph you're pretty much right. In '90-'91 there were drastic cuts in government funding of what were called at that time "special/prioritary programs". Therefore most of the people started to look for other opportunities. However, you did not mentioned a significantly challenging and rewarding Program for Bacau, unfolded in the '90s, namely the MiG-21 upgrade as MiG-21 LanceR. I think this is more than the FW-190 job.

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Florin
Posted: November 09, 2007 04:00 pm
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QUOTE (lancer_two_one @ November 05, 2007 08:39 pm)
... This missile had wings, and I supposed that this could be the source of your confusion. However, even that missile was subsonic; for someone with aerodynamics knowledge this would have been obvious just looking at those wings.......

Thank you for bringing the corrections - it seems they were necessary.
Are photos available with the missile you are writing about, on an accessible website?
This way I can see its wings. :)

This post has been edited by Florin on November 09, 2007 10:35 pm
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udar
Posted: April 01, 2012 09:05 pm
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Well, i know is a quite old topic, but i just get here after the link was posted in a more recent topic.

I know that unfortunately the IAR-95 was never produced, but today we can overcome the problems there, like engine and radar/avionics.
I mean, we are after all part of NATO, and in good relations with countries that can provide such materials.

I know in the same time is very hard to do something like this, as the aero industry is not as big as before.

However, if i will be one in charge, i will but this engine (or the license) from US

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt3neRLquDI

and put it on this plane

https://picasaweb.google.com/11450332066628...469789551984322

Sure, the airframe need some reinforcement and internal modifications (without changing the look) and an landing gear, as well the nose and the cockpit to be reshaped.
You can put some internal bays for missiles (at least for air to air ones, as many as possible)

Then you add there a good radar and an infrared passive detection system, some same avionic as one from Mig 21 Lancer, especially the DASH helmet and voila, we can have a very cool stealth fighter jet with supermaneuvrability and produced in most part here.

Unfortunately i know is just a dream (at least from now)
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Hadrian
Posted: April 03, 2012 08:38 pm
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Just buy some Gripens, it is more cost effective...
Not worth to start a multibillion program for 24-48 fighters.
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lancer21
Posted: April 03, 2012 09:20 pm
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If i may, i have a few questions about the ill-fated IAR-95.

Short story as i know it. IAR-95 initial plan ( after the many layouts considered, including F-15 like) was the one with the Spey engine, 4 missiles under the wings as the basic A-A configuration, abandoned 1981 because we couldn't get the engine.

The restarted project IAR-101/ IAR-S envisaged what engine the R-29-300? I have read on the net about the negociations with the russians to get the R-29 licence , that got nowhere, so i assume the restarted programme was based on the R-29 in lieu of the Spey. Were there any other engines considered at this stage?

The IAR-95ME was the demonstrator for IAR-S , with a stock R-29-300 engine, two seat etc. Some sources say it was suposed to fly in 1990 or 91, is that correct? ( well not terribly good "sources", it's harpoondatabase :lol:)

I've also read somewhere that since we couldn't get the R-29, there were plans to make an engine in the country . Its not clear if that meant designing a new engine from scratch , or just reverse engineering the R-29. Anyone knows by any chance more details ?

Finally , it is not clear for me when the project was cancelled , some sources say Ceausescu cancelled it in august 1985 , other say it was 1988, before building the IAR-S mockup. What is the truth?

Many thanks for your time.

:)
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lancer21
Posted: April 07, 2012 11:34 pm
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...Finally , does anyone has by any chances better images of this model, please? Is this the definitive IAR-S project then ?

(Wonder what happend with it , did they stuck back on the missing stabilator ... :( )

Thank you.

(IMG:http://www.incas.ro/components/com_spgm/spgm/gal/Aircrafts/Romanian_Supersonic_Projects/ib_p019_0_21.jpg)

This post has been edited by lancer21 on April 07, 2012 11:34 pm
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