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> Carol II fortified line, Photos from casemates-today
21 inf
Posted: April 01, 2007 05:35 am
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These casemates are part of a bigger fortified structure named Carol II fortified line.
This line was built to defend western border of Romania against hungarian army.
The length of the fortified line is 300 km, from Seini, Maramures county to Zimandu Nou, Arad county in the south.
The blueprints was french and the buildings was raised with french and british funds.
In 1938 80 casemates was built, in 1939 was built another 180, and in 1940 all the 320 casemates were ready.
The foritifed line was never used in battle, cos only few months after it's completion, following Viena Diktat, Transilvania was ocupied by hungarians who blew up all casemates.

This post has been edited by 21 inf on April 01, 2007 08:27 am
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21 inf
Posted: April 01, 2007 05:37 am
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Singurele lupte care s-au dat pe linia Carol II le-au dat pina la urma ... ungurii, dar nu ca atacatori, ci ca proprietari ai liniei.

More info about this fight posted courtesy to Denes.

My fault for using romanian language.

This post has been edited by 21 inf on April 01, 2007 08:21 am
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Dan Po
Posted: April 01, 2007 07:00 am
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good job 21inf ! I will try to see those places with my own eyes. I mean about plans and pics.

This post has been edited by Dan Po on April 01, 2007 07:01 am
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21 inf
Posted: April 01, 2007 07:14 am
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translated the previous romanian posts in english.

This post has been edited by 21 inf on April 01, 2007 08:28 am
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21 inf
Posted: April 01, 2007 07:25 am
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(IMG:http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/9223/r74nakws4.gif)

This is the plan of tipycal infantry czech blockhouse R-74 "Na holem" ground floor.

As i studied this plan, it looks very similar to the casemates from Oradea and implicit with Carol II line.

Legend:

1. embrasure for one 47mm gun with MG vz. 37 so called "L1" weapon
2. embrasure for two MGs vz. 37
3. embrasure for one MG vz. 26
4. bell for observation and for close defence with three embrasures for one MG vz. 26
5. machine gun ammunition storage
6. telephonist's room
7. commander's room
8. stairs to lower floor
9. water tank and machine gun ammunition
10. room of artillery officer
11. embrasure for defence of entrance
12. ditch

I'd say that in proportion of 90-95% is similar with the romanian casemates.

source: http://www.geocities.com/athens/forum/8414/Heavy.html

This post has been edited by 21 inf on April 01, 2007 07:26 am
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21 inf
Posted: April 01, 2007 07:42 am
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Infantry blockhouses were class 1,2, I, II, III resistance.
Main caracteristics of those class resistance blockhouses were:

-ceiling 120 (class 1) up to 250 (class III) cm
-front wall 120 (class 1) up to 275 (class III) cm
-wall with main weapons 80 (class 1) up to 125 (class III) cm
-side of nape 80 (class 1) up to 125 (class III) cm
-resistance up to caliber 15.5 (class 1) up to 30.5 (class III)

(IMG:http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7844/l1mi6.jpg)
This is very posible how the romanian casemates looked inside in 1940.
This is the interior of czech MO-19 "Alej" casemate, but the firing slits looks exactly like the romanian ones. On the bottom part of the gun is visible the 45 degree pipe that is still visible on romanian casemates today.

In the image is a L1 (4.7 cm gun with MG37). In the background there it is a machine gun.

source: http://www.geocities.com/athens/forum/8414/Heavy.html
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21 inf
Posted: April 01, 2007 07:44 am
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I was right with the description of the ditches in front of the ambrasures.

Embrasures with main weapons (L1, M) was always protected by light MG vz.26. These MGs were also in bells. A deep ditch in front of the embrasures of the main weapons protected them against attacks of enemy soldiers and assured that debris from any shelling did not obstruct the field of fire. These ditches are 2.1 m (resistance classes 1 and 2) or 3.1 m (I to IV) deep

source: http://www.geocities.com/athens/forum/8414/Heavy.html
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Dénes
Posted: April 01, 2007 08:11 am
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QUOTE (21 inf @ April 01, 2007 11:37 am)
Singurele lupte care s-au dat pe linia Carol II le-au dat pina la urma ... ungurii, dar nu ca atacatori, ci ca proprietari ai liniei.

Here is what I wrote in a book manuscript currently under work:
"A notable local Hungarian victory – with German assistance from the air – against Soviet armor took place on September 20 [1944]. The commander of the 19th Field Infantry Replacement Division, based nearby Miniş (Ménes), recalled that the so-called Carol Fortified Line – built pre-war by the Rumanians against the excepted Hungarian attack – lies nearby, including a large anti-tank ditch.

Assuming that the Soviets are not aware of this defensive structure, he ordered his men to lure the enemy armor towards the ditch. His assumption proved to be correct and the advancing Soviet tanks were halted by the unexpected, unsurpassable obstacle. At this point, the Hungarian tanks and anti-tank cannon of the 1st Armored Division ambushed the stranded Soviet tanks northwest of Zimandu Nou (Zimándújfalu). Soon German ground attack planes joined in the killing frenzy.

Within hours, the entire Soviet armored force, consisting of 25 T-34s of the 18th Tank Corps, was annihilated. The Hungarians accounted for seven tanks, the rest being knocked out by the Luftwaffe Schlachtfliegern. By the end of the day, the German flyers reported 30 enemy tanks ‘killed’ in the area, along with 120 trucks and vehicles. The Axis allies did not suffer any losses. However, this local Hungarian victory – known to them as ‘the tank battle at Pénzespuszta’ – did not halt the overall Soviet offensive, only slowed it down. It allowed, however, the 3rd Army units to seamlessly regroup to new defensive positions."


Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on April 01, 2007 08:17 am
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21 inf
Posted: April 01, 2007 08:18 am
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Dénes
Posted: April 01, 2007 08:22 am
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Oops, only now I realise that I've already posted this episode in another similar thread:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...indpost&p=48023
Most probably '21inf' took his info from this excerpt, 'romancising' it a bit... <_<

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on April 01, 2007 08:22 am
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21 inf
Posted: April 01, 2007 08:35 am
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To Denes

corrected my errors, i did not memorised and mentioned the source when i used the infos u mentioned above.

to avoid suspicions, i deleted that post, and if u believe that i translated from you i apollogise if necesary.
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Dénes
Posted: April 01, 2007 09:50 am
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O.K., 21inf., case closed.

Gen. Dénes

P.S. Why don't you give us your name, at least the Christian name, as most of us, which would give your posts more credibility?
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21 inf
Posted: April 01, 2007 11:17 am
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Thnk u Denes for understanding.

As refered to my Christian name, i didnt posted it cos i believe that in time, ppl around here will know me, and as a proof that i want to b correct all the time is above, when i corrected a possible error made by myself, due to my negligence, cos i didnt memorised and mentioned the source of my info and i could inflict damage to ur rights, unintentionatelly.
I dont want to harm anybody and i dont lie in my posts, cos i'm eligibile to loose my image and of course credibility.

It is a true fact in my username, i served in 21st Infantry Battalion "Traian Mosoiu", 11th Motomechanised Division "Carei".

When time will come, i'll let to know my name.

All the best and take care of u.

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21 inf
Posted: April 07, 2007 06:37 am
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To Denes:

Please, when u have time, can u be so kind to translate this quote?
It is about Carol II fortified line, but since i'm not a native hungarian spoker, i dont want ot do mistake in translating into english.

Figyelembe kellett venni továbbá a magyar határral párhuzamosan húzódó román erődvonalat is. Ezt az erődvonalat 1937-ben francia és angol támogatással és tanácsadók segítségével kezdték el építeni, amely a trianoni határral párhuzamosan kb. 300 km hosszan, a Tiszától a Marosig, majd az Erdélyi-Kárpátok, a Bükk hegység, az Érmelléki dombok, a Bihar- és Solymosi-hegység nyugati lábánál húzódott. Az volt a rendeltetése, hogy akár északon a Szamos völgyében, akár délen a Maros völgyében felvonuló román erők belső szárnyát védje, mert a külső szárnyak északon Csehszlovákiára, délen Jugoszláviára támaszkodhattak.
Az erődvonal építése egyre gyorsabb ütemben folytatódott a megkezdett munkálatok után. 1940 nyarára az erődvonal több mint 300 jól kiépített elemmel rendelkezett, amelyek jól összehangolt rendszert képeztek.
A betonerődöket általában egymás mellé telepítették, csak néhány helyen alkalmaztak mélységi tagozódást, főleg fontosabb csomópontokban. Az egyes elemek a várható támadási irányokba "vakok" voltak, és csak oldalazó tüzet tudtak lőni.
Minden erőd lőrése és bejárata elé egy, a megközelítést akadályozó vizes (ún. "Diamant") árkot terveztek. Ennek az volt a feladata, hogy megnehezítse az ellenség dolgát, amikor az robbanótöltetet akar elhelyezni a résekbe. A lőréseket védő árkot - a nagyobb erődöknél - egy külön lőrésbe elhelyezett géppisztoly (géppisztolyos katona) biztosította. Az árkokat csöveken keresztül az erődökből lehetett vízzel feltölteni, mivel minden erőd rendelkezett saját kúttal. A tervek szerint a figyelést az ellenség irányába periszkópokkal oldották volna meg, de ezek a műszerek nem kerültek beépítésre, így a felderítés és a pontos tűzvezetés feltételei nem voltak meg.
A világítást kőolaj lámpákkal oldották meg, de például latrináról nem gondoskodtak. A friss levegő biztosítását szellőzőcsövek segítségével oldották meg, amelyekre szükség esetén szűrő berendezést is csatlakoztatni tudtak.
Az erődök egymástól általában 200-300 méterre voltak, de a fontosabb helyeken (vasút, útcsomópont, lakott terület stb.) erődcsomópontokat alakítottak ki. Itt az erődök 25-50 méterre voltak egymástól, és mélységbe is tagolták őket. Az erődök közötti összeköttetést föld alatti vezetékek segítségével biztosították.
Érdekessége még az erődvonalnak, hogy az erődökbe beosztott legénység csak veszély esetén foglalta el őrhelyét a kiépített helyeken, addig az erődök mellé felépített téglaépületben tartózkodtak, ami egyértelműen laktanyai elhelyezést biztosított a katonák számára.

Az elkerülhetetlennek látszó magyar-román háborút végül a 27-én benyújtott román jegyzék akadályozta meg, amelyben a románok jelezték (valószínűleg német nyomásra), hogy elfogadnak egy "döntőbírói" eljárást a kritikus területekkel kapcsolatban.


source: http://crowland.uw.hu/images/csata/delvidek.html

This post has been edited by 21 inf on April 07, 2007 06:37 am
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21 inf
Posted: April 07, 2007 08:09 am
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On this site one can fond a WW2 movie, made by hungarian army, when they entered Transilvania in 1940.
In this movie can be clearly seen the casemates as they were in 1940, and the movie is taken in Oradea surroundings, as the speaker says in hungarian language.
It also can be seen the barbed wire in front of the casemates and antitank obstacles made from railroad tracks.

On the site click on "Uj! Korabeli Klipp a Karolyvonalrol! Itt letoltheto", written with yellow letters.

On the site one can also find some photos of the romanians casemates originating from 1940.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/karolyvonal/karolyvonal.html
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