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> Reenactors in Oradea
21 inf
Posted: January 07, 2007 08:03 pm
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Split from http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=3727

If you have some WW1 uniforms and not enough reenactors, I can bring 3 guys (including me) as spare reenactors. :) If you need, of course, and if it is allowed.
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Kepi
Posted: January 08, 2007 06:51 am
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Thanks for your offer. Unfortunately we haven’t any spare uniforms and equipment. Every reenactor makes his own uniform, according his size and try as much as possible to personalize it. They also gathered the appropriate equipment.

During the big shows we used extras but the uniforms/equipment, not very accurate and in bad condition, are borrowed from a cinema studio. Then you must be trained and drilled according the respective period regulations.

If you are interested in reenactment, I think the best solution is to create your own historical group, on a particular unit, army and historical period, or to join the already existing organizations. Now there are several shows, in Romania and abroad, to practice this hobby.

By the way! Your nickname “21 inf” has any particular significance for you? The 21st infantry was one of the oldest regiments of the Romanian army, the first unit in Moldavia, set up in 1830. In 1891 the 21st infantry took also the traditions of the 4th Line. From 1900 it had the barracks in the today building of the Military Museum.
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21 inf
Posted: January 08, 2007 03:26 pm
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QUOTE (Kepi @ January 08, 2007 06:51 am)
Thanks for your offer. Unfortunately we haven’t any spare uniforms and equipment. Every reenactor makes his own uniform, according his size and try as much as possible to personalize it. They also gathered the appropriate equipment.

During the big shows we used extras but the uniforms/equipment, not very accurate and in bad condition, are borrowed from a cinema studio. Then you must be trained and drilled according the respective period regulations.

If you are interested in reenactment, I think the best solution is to create your own historical group, on a particular unit, army and historical period, or to join the already existing organizations. Now there are several shows, in Romania and abroad, to practice this hobby.

By the way! Your nickname “21 inf” has any particular significance for you? The 21st infantry was one of the oldest regiments of the Romanian army, the first unit in Moldavia, set up in 1830. In 1891 the 21st infantry took also the traditions of the 4th Line. From 1900 it had the barracks in the today building of the Military Museum.

Well, Kepi, yes, it have a particular significance to me!

I voluntereed to the army in year 2000, and i was asigned to 21 Infantry Battalion "Traian Mosoiu", former 3rd Dorobanti "Olt" Regiment.
The 3rd Dorobanti was raised by Carol I, around 1860. 3rd Dorobanti took part at the assault of Plevna, in 1877.
It also took part at the Balcanic wars, at 1st World War and 2nd World War, both ways: eastern front (Sevastopol if i'm not wrong) and western front (as part of 11th Motomechanised Division).
Due to re-organisation of romanian army, 3rd Dorobanti was transformed in infantry regiment, and later it was transformed in battalion, in the old tradition of romanian army.
Today, the 21 Infantry Battalion "Traian Mosoiu", former 3rd Dorobanti "Olt" Regiment, does not longer exist. It was disbanded in 2005 in the modernisation process of romanian army.

For a period of 6 months i served in the army, after that the military service ended for me, cos i was not profesional soldier, but i was drafted (eventually voluntered).
But i liked what i learned in the army, and being a militaria passionate, i still like military life even today. Probably I'll loved it 4ever.

I wanted to start a reenactment group in my home city, with the other 2 guys that i mentioned above; they are also military passionate and we served together in the same platoon in the army. Our reenactment program stoped because lack of info about this art in Romania, mainly. It was not because financial problems.
We'd like to join some reenactment formation, regardless the period they reenact, because we are proud of being romanians and served the military forces, even for a very short time. :)
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Kepi
Posted: January 08, 2007 05:46 pm
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The 21st Infantry Battalion was the successor of the ex-3rd Dorobantzes “Olt” Regiment, of Oradea. This West-Wallachian (Oltenia) unit moved to Transylvania during the 1920s. I thought that you meant the old 21st infantry Regiment (4th of the Line) that was disbanded in 1947.

I understood that you and your friends would like to reenact a Romanian military unit. Have you decided upon a particular unit? Are you living in Transylvania (Oradea)? I think it would be great if you’ll be interested in a military unit that was garrisoned in your city. What about the pre-1918 period?

The members of the “6 Dorobantzes” historical association are ready to help any new reenactment group. If you read the posts of the “Reenactment” section on this Forum, you’ll find a lot of useful information.
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21 inf
Posted: January 08, 2007 06:05 pm
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Congratulations, Kepi!

You are very well informed about units history!!!
Yes, we are from Oradea, and i was loking to the reenactment subjects that you mentioned, but it was way too diluted the information to make an image for myself.
The info's was too spread on a long period of time regarding the military units from various times. But i'll focus more and i'll find what we need.

Regarding the pre-1918 military units from Oradea, we lack informations about romanian troops (units, military specialties or individual military romanian equipment).
All i could find was extensive info about hungarian or austrian troops/units from Oradea, but nothing particular on romanians troops, although i learned that part of Oradea's garisson was built up from romanian infantry and cavalry raised by romanians voievod's from vicinity of Oradea (Gepis village and so on).

We wanted first to reenact romanian soldiers from XVII century, since one of my ancestors was raised from "iobagie" to "nobil" (primipil armalist) due to his military skills, recognised by the ruler of Transylvania.
Because of my ancestor, i have the right to use my coat of arms on armor, shield, banner and so on, so i could make use of it if we reenact a romanian military unit from years 1650.
We are not fixed yet on this idea because we lack blueprints of shields, armors, helmets; i spoke to the museum, but as in another part were we spoke, people looked odd at us, because they know nothing on reenactment, so nobody is suporting us. For the moment :wacko: :D
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Kepi
Posted: January 10, 2007 06:41 am
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I think this is an interesting subject but it’s a little bit off the topic “Romanian reenactors in a WW1 historical film”.

I suggest opening a new topic about the reenacting in Oradea.
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Kepi
Posted: January 10, 2007 06:46 am
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To “21 inf”:

Well, you are interested to reenact 17th Century Romanian warriors in Transylvania. I’m not a specialist in medieval armies but as far as I know it’s very difficult to speak about Romanian military units in Transylvania during that time. Initially Crisana region (Partium) was not a part of Transylavania. After the battle of Mohacs (1526) and especially from 1571 Crisana (Partium) passed under Transylvanian Principality administration. From 1660 until the end of 17th century it was occupied by the Ottoman empire. So, it wasn’t a Romanian military tradition on that area and epoch.

On the 17th century in most European military units (companies) were composed of professional soldiers who fought as mercenaries for different rulers and kings. It was a military style of dress, weapons and warfare in Eastern Europe (Hungarian territories, Poland, Wallachia, Moldavia and Russia). But it’s difficult to say that it was a Romanian military tradition except maybe the Dorobantzes and Calarashi or Rosii (Red coats) in Wallachia.

There are several 16th-17th centuries warriors reconstruction groups in Hungary, (see: http://katonaihagyomany.lap.hu/ in which you could find useful links).

We are more keen in modern/ contemporary reenactment, and if you are interested in 19th-20th centuries reconstructions we can help you with some advice and you could join us for the shows.

Some Transylvanian AU units, in which fought many Romanians, could be also of interest. We would also intend to set up a group commemorating the traditions of the Romanian frontier troops (Grenz regiments) in Transylvania, to participate at the Napoleonic reenactment shows. Maybe this will be possible in the future.

It’s funny to see that our historians forgot the military contribution of the Romanians in the Habsburg Empire, from 1700 till 1918.
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21 inf
Posted: January 10, 2007 02:25 pm
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ok, u r right!
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21 inf
Posted: January 10, 2007 02:34 pm
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Yes, the romanian historians forget about romanian units from austrian or AU army.

As far as I know, there existed entire romanian border units (Regimentele de graniceri) in Sibiu area in austrian army in XVIII century.
There also existed entire romanian regiment in AU army in WW1, except the CO's of these units. Mainly this units fought in Galitia, and i know at least one entire romanian battalion raised in WW1 from Fagaras by AU army.

From XVII century i was interested about those mercenary romanian units who was raised from the ranks of local population. For instance, the bishop of Oradea use to have his personal army (banderie) built up only from romanians, with it's bivouac at Episcopia Bihor.

We are interested about WW1 or WW2 reenactment and we'll let you know about posible help that we may need in order to make our outfits.
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21 inf
Posted: January 10, 2007 02:42 pm
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On the link that you posted (thank you very much for it!!!!!) i found a lot of usefull and interesting info's.

Especially to mention about one of my favourite military unit, Legio X Gemina.
This name, of this unit who fought in Dacian Wars, inspired later Avram Iancu, in 1848, when he named his peasant legion "Legio Auraria Gemina", as remembrance of our latin roots.


Din Tara Motilor eu am venit!
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21 inf
Posted: January 10, 2007 03:12 pm
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yes, u r right, it's off-topic. thnk u.
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21 inf
Posted: January 10, 2007 03:13 pm
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Thnk u 4 the link!
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Kepi
Posted: January 10, 2007 05:33 pm
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QUOTE (21 inf @ January 10, 2007 02:42 pm)
On the link that you posted (thank you very much for it!!!!!) i found a lot of usefull and interesting info's.

Especially to mention about one of my favourite military unit, Legio X Gemina.
This name, of this unit who fought in Dacian Wars, inspired later Avram Iancu, in 1848, when he named his peasant legion "Legio Auraria Gemina", as remembrance of our latin roots.


Din Tara Motilor eu am venit!

In October 2006 a group of Hungarian reenactors, who commemorates the traditions of the XVth Roman Legion, came in Bucharest and inaugurated a temporary exhibition at the National Historical Museum, celebrating 1900 years of Latinity in Romania (see: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=3616 )

They are one of the three Hungarian groups that reenact Roman military units in Panonia. The people here asked why to call Hungarian reenactors to celebrate our long time claimed Latin origins. The answer is simple: because there isn’t any romanian interest to remember and revive our traditions. This task is not an easy one.

A museologist of the National Historical Museum, told me that in autumn 2007 they will call again that group because their presence here was a great success.

Maybe somebody in Romania will be interested to recreate the traditions of the Legions Vth Macedonica or the XIIIth Gemina , that were located in the roman province of Dacia in 2nd – 3rd centuries AD. This is not an easy task to purchase the weapons and the equipment/armour, to drill the soldiers, etc. But this might be a challenge for the Romanian patriots.
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Dénes
Posted: January 10, 2007 06:50 pm
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QUOTE (21 inf @ January 10, 2007 08:34 pm)
Yes, the romanian historians forget about romanian units from austrian or AU army.

It's very nice to see that people want to popularise history through re-enactment. It's a very spectacular form, which quickly grabs the interest of the onlookers, particularily if the re-enactment is done historically correctly.

What I would like to point out is that regardless of a particular soldier's ethnicity, he is a soldier of the country under which flag he is enrolled and serves. Therefore, one cannot speak in a historically correct way about 'Transylvanian Rumanian units' or 'Transylvanian Rumanian soldier' prior to 1919. Also, this is probably one of the reasons Rumanian historians don't write about this topic.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on January 10, 2007 07:06 pm
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21 inf
Posted: January 11, 2007 05:32 pm
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To Denes:

You r right, but there are some sensitive points acumulated during centuries in Transylvania between different nations, and u probably know that, living in Transylvania.
Technically, u r right when u say that a soldier is serving the nation who's uniform he have on him. But if u'll ask that particular soldier about his origins, he'll tell u that he is german, italian, french etc.
In paralel, americans citizens call themselves americans, but seldom they forget to point the native origins: irish, italian, mexican etc.

That's why i was not very accurate saying romanian (not rumanian) troops from Transylvania in XVIII century.
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