Attempting to defend Nazi Germany?

The "sympathiser von h" and myself could go on exchanging posts from now till next year and it will settle nothing, as Victor has stated he has been banned for "nonsense posts" on other forums.

Hopefully you will tire of his rants and drivel here to and do the same.

It would be a pity if this forum is tainted by such Right-Wing rubbish.

Kevin in Deva.

P.S. HelMUT you are shy on your list of countries by at least 5, East Caucasians is not a country by the way, neither are Wallonia and Flanders they are part of Belgium.

"Yellow Peril" is the generic term used by the Americans in reference to the Japanese in WW2, and is a stated fact of history, the same as the "Red Menace" used for the Communists.

Kevin in Deva

This post has been edited by New Connaught Ranger on September 20, 2006 11:48 am

Off-topic, the best Panzer Ace was not Michael Wittman, here is an updated list:

Name - Kills - Unit

Kurt Knispel - 168 - s.Pz.Abt. 503
Walter Schroif - 161 - s.SS-Pz.Abt. 102
Otto Carius - 150+ - s.Pz.Abt. 502
Johannes (Hans) Bolter - 139+ - s.Pz.Abt. 502
Michael Wittmann - 138 - s.SS-Pz.Abt. 101

Source: http://www.alanhamby.com/aces.html

Off-topic no2 - check your sources before engaging in a statistical battle. Your loss will add greatly to your opponent's arguments.

Cheers,

Al

isn't 352 Hartmann's "magic number"?
I belive it'S *unknown* how many tanks Carius actually destroyed by himself. Or for all the other for that matter.
Does anyone know the "headcount" of Harry Paletta from SS-StuG Abt. 105 ?

It is pointless, really, to try to discuss these matters in a civilised way when my opponent is so angry. Maybe another time.

For the time being I have said all that needs to be said.

I coclude my present argumne temporarily that

War wasn't wanted by many Germans.
It tore families apart.
Made many suffer, for the Allies as well as the Germans.

Many German soldiers had fought their battle and died with honour.
May their sacrifices echo into eternity.
Rest in peace.

K

This post has been edited by Helmut Von Moltke on September 20, 2006 11:08 am

The Red Terror and the extermination of the kulaks were known at the time! Maybe not all the gory details, but the actions were known.

Hi Guys,

The USSR has always been known to be deeply unpleasant. The mere fact that the West maintained a military alliance against it for 40 years during the Cold War indicates that not only was it known, but counter-measures were taken.

Of course, all those now independent peoples of Eastern Europe knew the faults of the USSR even better than those in the West - they suffered under them.

However, in the West, Nazi Germany's failings are necessarily better known because most of Western Europe was occupied by them, not by the USSR, and once the Nazis were defeated the evidence of their misdemeanours was left in the hands of the victors. Only now is direct access to some Soviet-era archives bringing Soviet crimes to light in the same detail and with the same verifiability as Nazi crimes have been known for 60 years.

Cheers,

Sid.

Hi Sid,

the fact that the outrages in the USSR were known at the time did not stop US firms from lending a hand to Stalin's 5 year programme. Opportunities to make money ignore issues of good or evil. Even nazis collaborated with the soviets. Another proof that politics is amoral and the good/evil part is for general use when part of propaganda to motivate folks to do something that the leaders want to be done.

take care

Hi Imp,

Yup. Politics is about pragmatism, or, as the saying goes, "Politics is the art of the possible".

And, as Churchill once put it, "Better jaw-jaw than war-war".

And, as I have put it myself, "Money is not patriotic".

That said, it doesn't mean all politicians wallow in the same cess pit. Some ideologies and the individuals practicing them are more moral than others.

Cheers,

Sid.

Hi Imperialist,

This is an interesting point for discussion; I think in practice politics often is amoral, but is it always entirely imoral? At various times I think morality of various kinds has come into things.

Are all political systems equally amoral, are some less amoral than others?

Can you talk about good and evil, not in terms of propaganda but as some one interested in people generally, trying to understand which attitudes are more beneficial and why, which aren't?

.

It is not a well known fact, but until late 1944, Ford and GM in Germany were actively managed by the American management team, through Sweden. That means an American corporation was producing trucks and making a profit FOR the Nazi War Machine.

Even worse, the US Government, after the war, paid $57 million in reparations to Ford and GM for bombing their factories.

How's THAT for amorality of business.

Remember, "what is good for General Motors, is good for America?"

you guys should watch a great documentary - the corporation. it details somewhat how much was the us corporations involved in nazi germany, and even in the nazi exterminations camps.

This is a shame, they made some of the greatest cars the world has seen.

The 56' Cadillac Eldorado for example.

I am trying to save up for a 56' Series 62 Sedan at the moment, another great vehicle, but I need a bigger garage also.

WALL STREET AND
THE RISE OF HITLER

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/

WALL STREET
AND THE
BOLSHEVIK
REVOLUTION

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/bo...tion/index.html

Hi 120mm,

I am always suspicious when I see the assertion "It is a well known fact......".

Have you a hard source for this information that can be followed up?

Cheers,

Sid.

Does it matter if I actually said, "it is NOT a well-known fact?"

I'll need to dig for sources; I read the books in 1991 for an M.A. paper, and can no longer put my hands on them.

I'll get back within the next few days with that.