Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



Pages: (2) [1] 2   ( Go to first unread post ) Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> What Romanian units fought with the russians?
Kuniworth
Posted: June 24, 2006 10:04 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1
Member No.: 970
Joined: June 24, 2006



Hello,

I was wondering which romanian units fought with the russians following the events on august 23, 1944. Im interested if anyone can name the corps and armies involved(I don't want single divisions just the corps and armies and where they fought).
PMEmail Poster
Top
RHaught
Posted: June 26, 2006 01:44 pm
Quote Post


Sublocotenent
*

Group: Members
Posts: 404
Member No.: 93
Joined: August 30, 2003



Believe the Romanian 4th Army, 1st Army and Mountain Corps fought in the Carpathians.
PMUsers WebsiteAOL
Top
D13-th_Mytzu
Posted: June 26, 2006 02:27 pm
Quote Post


General de brigada
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1058
Member No.: 328
Joined: August 20, 2004



You mean which romanian units kept fighting against russian units AFTER 23rd august 1944 ?
PMUsers Website
Top
Dénes
Posted: June 26, 2006 05:36 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4368
Member No.: 4
Joined: June 17, 2003



I think he means 'alongside' ("umar la umar" biggrin.gif ), not 'against'.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on June 26, 2006 05:36 pm
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Victor
Posted: June 27, 2006 06:27 am
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4350
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



QUOTE (RHaught @ Jun 26 2006, 03:44 PM)
Believe the Romanian 4th Army, 1st Army and Mountain Corps fought in the Carpathians.

During 24- 31 August and then in the Transylvanian campaign, there were numerous corps that were engaged in the fighting. Only two army commands were mobilized, however, the 1st and the 4th. Maybe others can be more specific on the exact corps subordinated to them, because presently I am away from my sources.

From memory, starting in October 1944, the two armies were organized with two corps each: 4th and 7th (the 1st Army) and 2nd and 6th (the 4th Army).
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
RHaught
Posted: June 27, 2006 09:44 pm
Quote Post


Sublocotenent
*

Group: Members
Posts: 404
Member No.: 93
Joined: August 30, 2003



I'm trying to find out the locations of Romanian and German units around Iasi myself. This way I can label photographs after I have taken them. Would also like to know about the area around Roman.
PMUsers WebsiteAOL
Top
Petre
Posted: May 25, 2010 08:02 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



Found on a Russian web site :
The Romanian troops (4-th and 1-st Army, 4-th Army Corps(?) and the Air Corps) entered under the operational control of The 2-nd Ukrainian Front. The decision for the 4-th Ro.Army was to act together with the 27-th Sov.Army (Gen. Trofimenko), the 1-st Ro.Army, under the leadership of the 53-rd Sov.Army (Gen. Managarov), the 4-th Ro.Corps(?), deployed on the Romanian-Bulgarian border on the Danube with the 75-th Sov.Rifle Corps (Gen. Akimenko) and the Ro. aviation units (113 serviceable planes) entered into the subordination of the 5-th Sov.Air Army.
In the two armies and the separate corps were 20 Romanian divisions. The number of divisions varied between 6-10 thousand people. Almost no tanks. The Artillery were very weak: only two regiments of heavy artillery. In the two armies and corps were 100 howitzers and 480 light and antitank guns. The 1-st. Ro.Army, for example, was completed mostly conscripts (more than 50% with no mil. training), also soldiers of the militia over the age of 45 years.
Therefore, the success of the Romanian army in fighting against Hitler's troops could be achieved only by joint action with the strong and highly experienced Red Army.
The 1-st Ro.Volunteer Division was armed at the level of a Sov.Division. For the formation of two Ro.Volunteer Divisions, USSR donated about 12,000 rifles and carbines, over 5,000 subMG, 1,500 MG, 600 guns and mortars, etc.
PMEmail Poster
Top
Montbrun
Posted: May 25, 2010 02:57 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 43
Member No.: 2755
Joined: March 01, 2010



The Infantry units that fought alongside the Soviets were organized using late-war Rumanian organizations with Rumanian and German equipment - the Soviets confiscated all captured Soviet equipment that the Rumanians had been using (ie 4.5cm antitank guns, etc.) in their combat structure. The exception was the Divizia "Tudor Vladimirescu," which had been raised by the Soviets from POW camps. This division was organized as a Guards Rifle Division:

Divizia “Tudor Vladimirescu” – Organized Late 1943, Committed 09/29/44 at Bucharest,
2.Ukrainian Front
--HQ - Staff
--Signals Platoon
--Rifle Regiment x 3
----HQ – Staff
----Sapper Platoon
----Chemical Defense Detachment
----Signals Platoon
----1.Rifle Battalion
------HQ – Staff, Signals Detachment
------Rifle Company
------Rifle Company
------Rifle Company
------MG Company
------Mortar Company
------ATR Platoon
------Antitank Company
----2.Rifle Battalion
------HQ – Staff, Signals Detachment
------Rifle Company
------Rifle Company
------Rifle Company
------MG Company
------Mortar Company
------ATR Platoon
------Antitank Company
----3.Rifle Battalion
------HQ – Staff, Signals Detachment
------Rifle Company
------Rifle Company
------Rifle Company
------MG Company
------Mortar Company
------ATR Platoon
------Antitank Company
----Reconnaissance Company
----SMG Company
----SMG Company
----Mortar Battery
----ATR Company
----Antitank Company
----Artillery Battery
--Artillery Regiment
----HQ – Staff + Support Platoons
----1.Artillery Battalion
----2.Artillery Battalion
----3.Artillery Battalion
--Divisional Units
----Division Reconnaissance Company
----Antitank Battalion (mot.)
----Sapper Battalion – 2 Companies
----Antiaircraft Battalion
----Training Battalion
----Signals Company
----Division Trains

A second Rumanian Volunteer Division was raised - the Divizia "Horia, Closca si Crisan" - but not until April, 1945, too late to see action.

This post has been edited by Montbrun on May 25, 2010 05:00 pm
PMEmail Poster
Top
Petre
Posted: May 31, 2010 07:44 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



The decision of Soviet political and military leadership to subordinate the Ro. armed forces since the night of 6/7 Sep.1944 required significant changes in the strategic concept of The Ro.GHQ on the NW side of the country, being excluded from the mil.operations.
In The 2nd Ukrainian Front, The 1st and 4th Ro. Armies formed Army Groups, together with the Sov. Armies, led by the Sov. commanders.
Although, in this context, the responsibilities of The Ro.GHQ have been severely altered, it continued to be concerned about the ongoing military operations closely, to coordinate the instruction of the new military contingents, supplies, evacuation, the personnel and equipment additions, etc.

The troops of The 27th Sov.Army in conjunction with The 18th Ro.Inf.Div./The 4th Ro.Army on Oct.11, 1944, released the city of Cluj, and the next day went to the line Rodna-Bistrita-Cluj.
On Oct.25, 1944 The 133rd Sov.Inf.Div./The 40th Sov.Army in conjunction with units of The 2nd Ro.Army Corps/The 4th Ro.Army, captured the city of Satu Mare.
In eastern Czechoslovakia, The „Tudor Vladimirescu – Debrecen” Division fought in the componence of The 53rd Sov.Army, on the SW Lucenec and in The Javorina Mountains, then in the bridgehead E Žarnovica, until 20 Mar.1945 when it was retired and then was sent home.

This post has been edited by Petre on June 01, 2010 06:57 am
PMEmail Poster
Top
Dénes
Posted: June 01, 2010 05:44 am
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4368
Member No.: 4
Joined: June 17, 2003



Here is the map showing the situation in September 1944 (from my forthcoming book, Magyar Warriors):

user posted image

Gen. Dénes
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Alexei2102
Posted: June 02, 2010 10:05 am
Quote Post


General de divizie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1352
Member No.: 888
Joined: April 24, 2006



QUOTE (Dénes @ June 01, 2010 05:44 am)
Here is the map showing the situation in September 1944 (from my forthcoming book, Magyar Warriors):

user posted image

Gen. Dénes

Nice - a very useful piece of information.

Al
PMEmail Poster
Top
Petre
Posted: June 08, 2010 03:44 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



Off Topic : I understood someone like the maps
http://www.warmech.ru/easteur_0/Rumin.jpg
http://www.warmech.ru/easteur_0/hunkart1.jpg
http://www.warmech.ru/easteur_0/vengr0.jpg

This post has been edited by Petre on June 08, 2010 04:12 am
PMEmail Poster
Top
Petre
Posted: September 20, 2021 04:32 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



Source https://historyrussia.org/
Liberation of Europe. Romania

Raportul Biroului Politic al Armatei 27 (sov) catre Seful Directiei Politice a Frontului 2 Ucrainean despre starea Armatei 4 rom si evenimentele mai importante

12 sept. 1944.
I
A.4 rom este formata din 4 Corpuri, astfel :
C.6 A cu Div. 6, 11 si 21 inf,
C.6 Teritorial cu Div. 20 inf, 2 si 18 munte,
C.6 Munte cu Div. 1 munte, Div. 3 si 13 inf,
C.5 mecanizat cu Div. 1 si 8 cav, Div.9 inf, Reg.115 inf si blindatele (Niculescu).
Armata o comanda gen. c.a. Avramescu, participant la luptele trupelor germano-române pentru Crimea. Sef St.maj – gen. Gavrilescu, participant la luptele din Ucraina si Crimea. În conducerea armatei toti sunt ofiteri de cariera, absolventi ai Academiei St.maj, multi au studiat în Franta. Doar putini dintre ei cunosc lb. rusa, si aceea prost.
Cel mai bun este C.5 mecanizat. C.6 Munte si C.6 Teritorial sunt obosite, acum iau parte la lupte si totodata sunt în stadiu de formare, se completeaza în principal cu soldati care au urmat 2-3 luni de instruire.
Armata este slab înarmata. Aproape ca lipsesc artileria, mijoacele anti-tanc.
Artileria existenta este insuficient asigurata cu munitie. Munitia armatei este asigurata centralizat – prin Bucuresti, care întârzie cu asta. Armata avea posibilitati sa organizeze productia munitiilor la Sibiu, dar nu s-a facut asta, pe motiv ca i s-a interzis. Comandantul armatei noastre a dat dispozitii pentru producerea grenadelor, minelor si proiectilelor în orasul Sibiu.
Din cauza armamentului slab, armata româna nu este suficient de capabila. La întâlnirea cu inamicul, a început sa se retraga. Apoi, prin cooperarea cu armata noastra de tancuri, la 9.09.44 Armata româna a trecut la ofensiva.
Munca de educatie în rândul efectivelor nu se executa. Biroul propaganda existent pe lânga conmanda armatei a fost desfiintat acum câteva zile. Seful St.maj gen. Gavrilescu a explicat ca asta era «o mare îngrosare a rândurilor ofiterilor la conducerea armatei».
Educatie efectivelor se limiteaza prezentarea în rezumat a actiunilor de lupta ale Armatei Rosii, ale armatei române si ale aliatilor nostri, si asta nu în mod regulat. Soldatii nu stiu zile bune despre ce s-a întâmplat pe front. Starea de spirit a marii mase de soldati, în special la C.5 mec, nu este rea. Soldatii vorbesc : «Acum Transilvania va fi româneasca».
Cu totii sunt suparati contra nemtilor si a ungurilor.
C.5 A este comandat de gen. Rozin, al carui tata a servit în Armata rusa la 1877 si a primit un Ordin. Si generalul a luptat împreuna cu rusii în razboi în 1915-16. În discutiile cu ofiterii nostri gen. Rozin a declarat : «Acum sunt bucuros ca sunt iar cu rusii. Va fi bine sa luptam. Acum avem pentru ce sa luptam».
Generalii români si ofiterii exprima nemultumirea ca comandantii si soldatii nostri le confisca ilegal mijloacele de transport.
În realitate se comporta foarte necivilizat câtiva ofiteri si militari de la A.6 tancuri. Lt.col. H ... de la Div.17 artil a confiscat un automobil în s. Seliste de la un colonel român, sub pretaxt ca ar exista un ordin secret care permite confiscarea masinilor de la toti românii si de la armata. ... Maiorul S... a declarat ca brigada lor si în general toti tanchistii au indicatia de la reprezentantul SMG gen.maior Iakovlev sa confiste masinile civililor si armatei române, pentru ca ea lupta slab ... Confiscarile de mijloace auto au luat un caracter de masa, ceea ce duce la mari probleme si frustari în primirea ordinelor de lupta de catre armata româna.
II
Populatia Sibiului este 63.000, din care români 33.000, nemti 25.000, unguri 3.000, restul evrei si altii.
Industrie : Fabrica masini agricole «Righer», Fabrica «Metroves», ateliere de reparatii CFR, fabrici – de tricotaje, ciorapi, pânzeturi, creioane, tot felul de manufacturi. La 6 km de oras – fabrica de explozibili. 4 ateliere RK auto si 3 RM. 5 mori cu valturi, capacitate 8 vagoane pe zi. 62 brutarii (doua mari, restul mici). În total se pot coace zilnic 70 to pâine.
Din informatiile Primarului Dori si adjunctului sau, dr. Mitea Semeon, în depozite exista 500 to cereale.
În oras functioneaza tremvaiul, uzina electrica, apa curenta, toate magazinele si alte institutii.
Toata populatia este pe loc, nimeni n-a parasit orasul. Locuitorii au întâmpinat bine unitatile noastre si le-au însotit prin oras. Strazile au fost pline de oameni toata ziua. Pe 8.09.44 la mitingul organizat de P.Comunist local în cinstea venirii Armatei Rosii au luat parte peste 2.000 oameni.
III
În raionul de actiune al armatei noastre au avut loc urmatoarele fenomene politice negative mai serioase:
1. În partea de nord a României si mai ales în Transilvania se remarca anumiti factori ai atitudinii ostile a populatiei ... În satele unde s-au oprit pentru popas unitatile noastre, îsi închid locuintele si cauta sa nu vânda nimic. Asta se explica pentru ca în rândul populatiei exista multi germani, care si actioneaza contra Armatei Rosii.
2. Într-o serie de localitati si în toti muntii din nordul Alpilor Transilvani au ramas si actioneaza organizatii ale partidei fasciste, legionari, gardisti.
Sunt multi mai ales în munti la Sibiu, Alba-Iulia, Cisnadie, Fagaras si înca altele.
3. În partea de NV a României, începând de la Târgoviste, în localitatile importante si în munti exista garnizoane românesti mari, desi nu exista nimic special acolo.
În plus, si asta este important, într-o serie de orase (Cisnadie, Sibiu si altele) în compunerea trupelor române de garnizoana se afla multi germani. Prin trecerea unitatilor noastre, aceste garnizoane s-au comportat nu doar necorespuzator, dar si provocator (nu saluta, pun piedici amplasarii trupelor noastre, etc.).
Din toti acesti factori se vede ca în spatele trupelor noastre ramân un numar însemnat de elemente dusmanoase si pro-fasciste, unitati române înarmate, adesea ostile fata de noi. Trebuie curatat spatele nostru, mai ales de elementele fasciste si de grupurile fasciste. Dar cu fortele armatei noi nu suntem în masura sa aplicam aceste masuri.
Seful B. Politic al A. 27 (sov)
Col. Hvalei

user posted image

Pierderile Div.1 rom inf Tudor Vladimirescu, sept. 1944 (raportate de Fr.2 Ucr.)
Morti 14-47-61, Disparuti 0-3-9, Raniti 28-240-287.

This post has been edited by Petre on September 20, 2021 04:42 am
PMEmail Poster
Top
Dénes
Posted: September 21, 2021 07:37 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4368
Member No.: 4
Joined: June 17, 2003



"Trebuie curatat spatele nostru, mai ales de elementele fasciste si de grupurile fasciste." Acest demers s-a concretizat in deportarea, in masa, in URSS, a locuitorilor de etnie germana si maghiara din Transilvania, la munca fortata. Multi nu s-au mai intors acasa niciodata.

Gen. Dénes
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Petre
Posted: September 22, 2021 01:14 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



Not quite.
The deportation was part of the Soviet plan for German war reparations in the form of forced labor, according to the 1944 secret Soviet Order 7161.
That means not to secure the back of The Red Army in action.
PMEmail Poster
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Pages: (2) [1] 2  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.2964 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]