Question on di Cesares 109G

Denes, apreciate all the work that you done so far for romanian aviation reserch.

I didn't accused you for inaccuracies of 227 color profile. I just wanted to corect and add new details for all published color profiles of Dicesare "white 227" ( including the one published at french TMA editor).
I m doing that only for the sake of modellers like Radu who need all that small details before starting the project and accusing people "standing on photos"

I'm also corecting my profiles when i find new evidence ( from you or elsewhere)

Yes, it is. Thanks.

Gen. Dénes

Thanks for your kind words.

All the best for the holiday season,

Gen. Dénes

Denes, apreciate all the work that you done so far for romanian aviation reserch.

I didn't accused you for inaccuracies of 227 color profile. I just wanted to corect and add new details for all published color profiles of Dicesare "white 227" ( including the one published at french TMA editor).
I m doing that only for the sake of modellers like Radu who need all that small details before starting the project and accusing people "standing on photos"

I'm also corecting my profiles when i find new evidence ( from you or elsewhere)

Hi Cantacuzino,
I did not "accuse" anyone of "standing on photos".
I ASKED why do you SIT on such photos.
This may be a cross-cultural misunderstanding, but that is not an accusation or a blame by any stretch of immagination.

Here is what I meant:
- I am not a historian.
- I have no access to original wartime photos.
- I do not have access to a collection of photos.
- I live far from veterans and cannot interview them.
- I do not have access to archives.

YOU DO!

- All I am is a model builder, a craftsman if you want.
- I build models based on the information available to me.
- I only have access to published work. Unless people like you publish their findings, people like me do not know about them.

I would like to have a book with such detailed photos. I will even offer my help with the English translation if you need it.

I always appreciate your help and I hope I did not insult you in any way.

Radu

No ofense Radu.
It is also my dream to have a complete book with all the pictures, corect color profiles ( and pilots stories) of romanian Messerschmits (from E to G, from est to west front) .
But it's not so simple. Most of the pictures are from private owners ( with copyrights), and to find an serious editor it's not so easy ( the promised IAR 80 book at TMA editor is an example).
But I agree with you. We should make a team, all the people who had info and pictures for rom. Messerschmitts to release an english version (complete book ).
Will be nice also the english version for IAR 80-81 (pictures and color profiles).
And for english translation you will be the first candidate.

Something I would love to see is a book like Larry Pistole's "Pictorial History of the Flying Tigers" done for the ARR.

Basically just a big, coffee table sized book full of photos, profiles and anecdotes. The book mentioned is over 260 pages not including appendices and bibliography. I've had it 10 years and still regularly flip through, both for enjoyment value and research purposes.

Get several historians/authors/artists together (like Denes and Cantacuzino, Bogdan Patrascu et al) and an interested publisher, would be a great reference, especially now that those of us in the West are finally getting access to all this material after so long.

Not to mention that there are fewer veterans left every day to talk to about their experiences...

The problem with such a comprehensive pictorial book in English language on the history of the Bf 109 in ARR service is that there is simply no market for it.

Recently, an offer of mine to a British publisher, regarding an even wider topic, was turned down with the same explanation. That's the sad reality.

Nowadays, most people are looking for free internet sources (no matter how reliable they are) for all kinds of topics, including aviation history. Therefore, publishers are having hard time to sell half the number of books they used to sell, thus profit margin is razor thin. The sad reality of our times...

In conclusion, don't expect to see book titles dealing with 'obscure' topics too soon on the shelves of the bookstore nearby.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 28, 2005 01:34 am

Didnt mean just the 109, the ARR in general. But I see what you mean. I know quite a few people personally who would buy a book like that, but we are all history/aviation fanatics, so its kind of a niche market.

Thats what stinks about the world now (especially here in the states). People will deny the history they don't want to hear about, or buy millions of copies of a piece of crap novel based on conspiracy theories and false history, but god forbid they actually learn something.

I also blame the spate of recently published "opinionated" history (like the one claiming the Japanese treated the people of SE Asia better than the British or French did...) for jading people against WWII reference works. So much of whats been published recently is either politically motivated or based on half-truths and outright supposition (like someone 60 years later can be expected to know what was going on in Hitlers head just because he has a psychology degree?) that I don't even buy anything unless I know the author or the series (like the Aircraft of the Aces books).

I blame a lot of that on publishers approving books based on subjects that they don't know about though. How can they edit or correct something if they have no idea what the author is talking about. Case in point- "Conquer the Sk", published by Metrobooks and written by Harold Rabinowitz. There are so many misidentified pictures and pieces of false information that its almost painful to read.

Radub, you haven't done anything wrong. C-2 has absolutely bo authority to ban anyone and it was just another one of his misunderstood jokes.

Hi Victor,
I know now, he contacted me off-list. I fell for it hook, line and sinker!
Radu

I understand C-2 jokes but only next day

This is becoming quite a separate topic now. Thank you all for the explanations. I also thought that copyright and interest were the two greatest issues.

Denes is right also about the level interest and the effects of the Internet on it. The most worrying trend is the appearance of scanned books available from pirate and shareware sources. Such practices can "kill" publishers.

There may be a solution: How about a stand-alone series of 6-page articles (one can call this series "Aripi Romanesti", "Aviatorii", "Zburatoriii" or whatever) in the periodical magazines such as Aeromagazin, Top Gun, Modelism, etc.
At the end of the year, these articles can be compiled together into an "Almanac", or a "Special". Across a few years, this could lead to a nice series of books. This is achievable.

Alternatively, such articles can be published as a subscription-based "6-page monthly newsletter" type of publication. These newsletters can then be put together in a ring-binder or folder and make a nice file. The newsletters can be PDF files emailed by this website (or any other enterprising website) to the subscribers. They can also be made available to download from the website in exchange for a one-off fee if one does not want to take a whole subscription. Look at Catavencu's website for inspiration. The subscriber can print them on their own printer or take the disk to the local printshop (Snap Printers, Kinko's, or whatever equivalent in Romania) and have it printed on a colour laser printer. Payment can be made by Paypal (which includes credit card, debit card, bank transfer), bank transfer, postal order etc.

I know from the world of model-making that such work-of-heart endeavours will never make anyone rich in money, but the value of thanks, appreciation and repect is through the roof.

HTH
Radu

As goofy as this sounds, I've been hoping for some time that one of the popular flight simes, like the IL2 series or my own Aces High, would put out a monthly print publication that would include articles on aircraft of "obscure" air forces.

I recall trying to generate interest when I started up Grupul 7 Vanatoare in WarBirds in 2000. Probably 75% of the people I flew with didn't even know Romania fought heavily on the Eastern Front, all they'd ever heard about were the raids on Ploesti. And probably 90% had never heard of the IAR fighters

Heck, probably a full third of people in there didn't even know Romania was a country. One guy in all seriousness thought that Romania was a city on Italy.

Which is why I'm proud to say I'm one of the small minority of Americans who can find it on a map without having to look for the name

Hi Treize,
Romagna (pronounced Romania) is indeed a region of Italy and has been called that long before Romania was called "Romania". As daft as it sounds, there are also places like Targoviste, Bistrita, Cernavoda, Medgidia, Cerna, Tuzla in other neighbouring countries for the simple reason that names like that were "borrowed" from other languages.

Anyway, Romanian aviation is often referred to as a "small air force" but I see it as a "belittled" air force.
That may have something to do with the fact that others are "shameless" in promoting their own history. We need to do the same.

However, Romanian aviation is slowly but surely coming to the forefront due to the recent books written by Denes, Modelism, Aeromagazin etc. Only if this trend continues, the exposure will get better.

Radu

Wow, learn something every day.

I also notice that many places in Romania have 2 or 3 names, I'm assuming one in Romanian, one in Hungarian (from when part of the Empire) and one in German (ie Transylvania = Siebenburgen?) from the Teutonic Knights?

We really take for granted our short and relatively peaceful history over here...