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> wandering the battlefields
mihnea
Posted: October 23, 2005 02:36 pm
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You are right Cristian I have read only the second chapter that you posted the link to.

Now that I read the entire law including the penalties, I am still not changing my opinion because I have found no restrictions regarding the battle fields.

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cipiamon
Posted: October 23, 2005 03:39 pm
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Some time ago, on this forum i heard of somebody that was caught scanning a mior corn field, the penalty was 50 mil., and don't take me for counterfit-arheologist, i am just looking for simple ww1-2 "junk". I am not interesed in the treasures of the country.
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Cristian
Posted: October 23, 2005 04:00 pm
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Sorry,in romanian, but is for Mihnea only
i) prin zonă cu potenţial arheologic evidenţiat întâmplător se înţelege terenul, în care existenţa bunurilor de patrimoniu arheologic s-a evidenţiat în mod neprevăzut, ca urmare a:

(i) acţiunilor umane, altele decât cercetarea arheologică atestată, cum ar fi: lucrări de construcţii, lucrări de prospecţiuni geologice, inclusiv teledetecţie, lucrări agricole, precum şi alte tipuri de lucrări şi cercetări efectuate subteran sau subacvatic;

3) Descoperirile arheologice întâmplătoare se anunţă în termen de cel mult 72 de ore, primarului localităţii de către persoana descoperitoare, proprietarul ori titularul dreptului de administrare a terenului în cauză.

Art. 5. − (1) Prin protejarea bunurilor şi terenurilor de patrimoniu arheologic din zonele definite la art. 2 lit. h) şi i) se înţelege adoptarea măsurilor ştiinţifice, administrative şi tehnice care urmăresc păstrarea vestigiilor descoperite întâmplător sau ca urmare a cercetării arheologice până la clasarea bunurilor respective sau până la finalizarea cercetării arheologice, prin instituirea de obligaţii în sarcina proprietarilor, administratorilor sau titularilor de alte drepturi reale asupra terenurilor care conţin sau au conţinut bunurile de patrimoniu arheologic respective, precum şi prin reglementarea sau interzicerea oricăror activităţi umane, inclusiv a celor autorizate anterior
(2) “Certificatul de descărcare de sarcină arheologică” reprezintă actul administrativ, emis în condiţiile prezentei legi, prin care se anulează regimul de protecţie instituit anterior asupra terenului în care a fost evidenţiat patrimoniul arheologic
(5) În cazul zonelor cu patrimoniu arheologic evidenţiat întâmplător delimitate conform prevederilor art. 2 lit. i) se instituie, din momentul descoperirii de bunuri arheologice, pentru o perioadă ce nu poate depăşi 12 luni, regimul de protecţie pentru bunurile arheologice şi zonele cu potenţial arheologic în vederea cercetării şi stabilirii regimului de protejare.

(7) Accesul cu detectoare de metale şi utilizarea lor în situri arheologice, în zonele de interes arheologic prioritar şi în zonele cu patrimoniu arheologic reperat sunt permise numai pe baza autorizării prealabile emise de Ministerul Culturii şi Cultelor.
(8) Până la descărcarea de sarcină arheologică terenul care face obiectul cercetării este protejat ca sit arheologic, conform legii.
(9) Autorizarea lucrărilor de construire sau desfiinţare din zonele cu patrimoniu arheologic reperat se aprobă numai pe baza şi în conformitate cu avizul Ministerului Culturii şi Cultelor şi Cultelor.

(10) În cazul zonelor cu patrimoniu arheologic evidenţiat întâmplător, în condiţiile prevederilor alin. (5), până la descărcarea de sarcină arheologică, autorizarea de construire se suspendă sau, după caz, primarul localităţii dispune întreruperea oricărei alte activităţi, în conformitate cu avizul Direcţiilor pentru cultură, culte şi patrimoniu cultural judeţene, respectiv a municipiului Bucureşti, şi se instituie regimul de supraveghere sau săpătură arheologică.



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C-2
Posted: October 23, 2005 04:06 pm
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Guys,
A few years ago,when I tried to convince the NG to help us find some lost ww2 planes,I was told By Cristian Lascu (not our Cristian) that if those laws wouldn't be so severe,the country would be devastated by bandits (and still is).
Those laws are desparate measures,since a lot of sites were completely compromise.
In order to dig,I belive you need some oficial paper.
We must find a way...
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mihnea
Posted: October 23, 2005 04:27 pm
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You are right about the use of a metal detector on a field.
But I’m still clouded abut the law, the way it is written leaves for way for interpretations, when it comes to battle fields.

@cipiamon: The person that you are talking about was caught with any objects from the ground?

This is my last post on metal detectors.
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cipiamon
Posted: October 23, 2005 04:45 pm
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No, as i remeber he was just cought whit a metal detector in his heand :(
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ANDI
Posted: October 23, 2005 07:13 pm
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Ok, let's say the law is right. But there must be a difference between the battlefield sites where you are searching on your own risk and ancient sites where you can discover an old jar full of gold coins.
I mean, you just cannot compare rusty war artefacts with a real treasure, right?
Even more, talking from the passionate point of view, you can help the authorities with info and recovering lost fragments of recent history.
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Carol I
Posted: October 23, 2005 07:35 pm
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QUOTE (ANDI @ Oct 23 2005, 08:13 PM)
Ok, let's say the law is right. But there must be a difference between the battlefield sites where you are searching on your own risk and ancient sites where you can discover an old jar full of gold coins.

Actually there is not. Archaeology deals with the study of the past by analysing the material remains left behind, be it in a settlement or on a battlefield.

QUOTE (ANDI @ Oct 23 2005, 08:13 PM)
I mean, you just cannot compare rusty war artefacts with a real treasure, right?

An archaeological artefact may be a rusty thing for one person and a real treasure for another. It is very hard to draw a demarcation line.

QUOTE (ANDI @ Oct 23 2005, 08:13 PM)
Even more, talking from the passionate point of view, you can help the authorities with info and recovering lost fragments of recent history.

You may help the authorities, but there are countless of others who do not think like you and are quite willing to take advantage of any loophole in the law. That is why you are required to register your activities in advance.
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ANDI
Posted: October 24, 2005 09:02 am
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Another picture with an austrian entrenchig tool (this is from my "other stuff" collection). As you can see the handle is a repro and I am still working on it ("baitz" coat). This particular model had an edge with saw teeth and the other was sharpened like an ax. There are still visible on it the markings: Vogel&Noot , Wartberg and 1913.
Believe it or not it was accidentally discovered by a goat shepherd in a wood. The wild boars apparently had uncovered it..... :blink:
(IMG:http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/871/img01562ho.jpg)
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Dénes
Posted: October 24, 2005 03:21 pm
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Here is a photo taken "somewhere in Eastern Europe" (actually Poland).
This finding is good as gold...

Gen. Dénes
(IMG:http://www.lerenfort.fsnet.co.uk/img77.jpg)
[Source: http://www.lerenfort.fsnet.co.uk]
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dragos
Posted: October 24, 2005 03:31 pm
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QUOTE (Dénes @ Oct 24 2005, 06:21 PM)
Here is a photo taken "somewhere in Eastern Europe" (actually Poland).
This finding is good as gold...

The biggest problem is how do you take it home... :D
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mihnea
Posted: October 24, 2005 03:34 pm
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QUOTE (ANDI @ Oct 24 2005, 09:02 AM)
Another picture with an austrian entrenchig tool (this is from my "other stuff" collection). As you can see the handle is a repro and I am still working on it ("baitz" coat). This particular model had an edge with saw teeth and the other was sharpened like an ax. There are still visible on it the markings: Vogel&Noot , Wartberg and 1913.
Believe it or not it was accidentally discovered by a goat shepherd in a wood. The wild boars apparently had uncovered it..... :blink:
(IMG:http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/871/img01562ho.jpg)

:o Supreme craftsmanship on that wood handle. You made it yourself?

However it seems a bit short and odd shaped, never seen that shape before, did you made it after an original one?

And also I have two suggestions:
You could paint the metal part satin black after you clean it to bare metal.
And secondly you could also paint the handle with satin varnish.
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mihnea
  Posted: October 24, 2005 03:44 pm
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QUOTE (dragos @ Oct 24 2005, 03:31 PM)
The biggest problem is how do you take it home...  :D

Don't worry it is already in US under restoration. And they are doing an excellent job.

Same vehicle http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/panther_2.htm
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ANDI
Posted: October 24, 2005 05:57 pm
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Mihnea,
the handle was made by a carpenter, using my drawings. I have seen this model at MMN in a diorama about ww1, but at another kind of shovel.
To be honest with you I have never seen on the Internet a good example of an austrian entrenching tool like this....
I am afraid to even more wire brush it becouse it is quite rusty, it even has some small holes in it, but I am going to try what you said on the handle.
ANDI
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Dénes
Posted: October 25, 2005 04:23 pm
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Here is an original WW 1-era showel (repainted), manuf'd in 1915, coming from Bulgaria.

Gen. Dénes

(IMG:http://bulgariana.com/images/IMGP0215uuuuuuuu.JPG)

(IMG:http://www.bulgariana.com/images/11dec/IMGP0316.JPG)

(IMG:http://www.bulgariana.com/images/11dec/IMGP0320.JPG)

[Source: http://bulgariana.com]
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