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> Jg 51 Vict. over Romania.
C-2
Posted: July 27, 2005 06:11 pm
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In the list of Vict of the famous Jg 51 Molders there are listed 7 vict over Romania in one day.
The only one pilot who registrated the claim is Hptm Rammelt Karl at 5.4.44.
14:13 7000 m 100km NW of Craiova.
He was flying Stab II/jg 51. The vict was a B 24.
The ideea is that there are another 6 B 24 registrated as kills by Jg 51 that day .
Can anyone tell more details?
Were those B 24 shoot down that day?

Denes,Cantacuzino,I'mcounting on you!

This post has been edited by C-2 on July 27, 2005 06:13 pm
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Dénes
Posted: July 27, 2005 07:20 pm
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Here are the 7 victory claims submitted by JG 51 pilots against four-engine bombers on April 5, 1944:

05.04.44 Obfhr. Hans Sieckenius 6./JG 51 B-24 @ 80 km. N.E. Craiova: 7.000 m. 14.03
05.04.44 Uffz. Erren 4./JG 51 B-24 @ 90 km. N.E. Craiova: 7.000 m. 14.05
05.04.44 Maj. Karl Rammelt Stab II./JG 51 B-24 @ 100 km. N.E. Craiova: 7.000 m. 14.13
05.04.44 Ltn. Otto Schultz 6./JG 51 B-24 @ 80 km. S.W. Ploesti: 7.000 m. 14.18
05.04.44 Ofw. Fritz Liebelt 6./JG 51 B-24 @ 75 km. W.S.W. Ploesti: 7.000 m. 14.22
05.04.44 Uffz. Hirsch 5./JG 51 B-24 @ 55 154 at 6.000 m. 14.28
05.04.44 Ltn. Hans Taubenberger 6./JG 51 B-24 @ 30 km. W. Ploesti: at 7.000 m. 14.31

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on July 27, 2005 08:22 pm
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C-2
Posted: July 27, 2005 08:02 pm
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Great!
What I cannot understand,how those unknown pilots made during a few min such a masacre of the B 24's!
I don't think Eder's boys ever did something like this...
More details?
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Cantacuzino
Posted: July 29, 2005 08:41 pm
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Not only Germans from JG51 but also romanians with IAR 80 and Bf 109 contributed to this massacre.
Below it's the aftercombat report of 449BG ( yellow cowling FW 190 was ofcourse IAR 80-81 from 6th FG and 1st FG ).

Narrative Report No. 41 Date: 5 April 1944
Target: Ploesti, Rumania, Marshalling Yard.


Twenty-seven B-24-H's took off at 1059 - 1132 hours to bomb the Ploesti Marshalling Yard. Four returned early. Twenty-two dropped 35 tons of 100-lb incendiary bombs on target at 1437 - 1444 hours from 23,000 to 24,400 feet. One dropped 1.6 tons on a forest in Rumania at 1515 hours from 15,000 feet. (This aircraft was hit by flak before target, lost altitude - could not keep up with formation.) One returned 1.6 tons to base, and three jettisoned 5 tons in the sea. Twenty-three returned at 1740 - 1850 hours. None lost, none missing, none at friendly fields.
Rendezvoused with 376th at San Pancrazio at 1204 hours, on course to San Vito Di Normanni. This Group and the 376th formed third wave of the Wing formation. Thence to key point at north end of Lake Scutari (4215N - 1915E) to 4429N - 2345E to Ocnita (4500N - 2533E) to target. The attack was made on axis varying from 98° to 140°. The rally was right and the return was substantially as briefed.
Visual observations show much smoke and fire in target area, and in the industrial area surrounding the specific target of this wave. Some hits in M/Y choke point. Smoke from bombing of groups ahead and a partially effective smoke screen in target area made visual observation extremely difficult. Pictures were obtained from only 4 of the 6 cameras. Smoke again made damage assessment difficult.

Fighters. Seventy-five (75) to one-hundred (100) E/F were sighted in the target area. Types observed were ME-109's, ME-210's, JU-88's, and FW-190's, who made intermittent attacks from 1422 hours at 4400N - 2515E to target and to 4400N - 2430E. Brunt of the fighter attacks were directed against other groups of the Wing formation. One A/C of the Group returning alone due to damage, experienced sustained and aggressive attacks from 7 ME-109's, which attacked around the clock - usually high. T/E fighters firing rockets were seen. No belly tanks were observed on E/F. Generally the E/F appeared to be attacking stragglers. There were isolated attacks from 12 o'clock closing to 150 yards and passing under formation.

Claims of this Group are as follows: [Destroyed -- 9 ME-109s; 2 FW-190s. Probably Destroyed -- 3 ME-109s; 1 FW-190.] Markings: FW-190's - Yellow nose. Black fuselage. Blue and yellow striped tail. Yellow ring on cowling. ME-109's - Silver with blue stripes. Black or dark blue with yellow wing tips.
Significant observations as to fighter A/C: One E/F paralleled formation for about an hour before target was reached, just out of range of bombers. One T/E fighter followed formation from deep in Yugoslavia to target, keeping about 5,000 to 6,000 feet below. Three (3) E/F above formation in target area may have been directing attacks. Large white bursts of flak or flares 5,000 feet above formation appeared to be signal to E/F to stay away. Red flak or flares appeared to signal to E/F to begin attacks. Flak would stop after red flare. Some E/F continued attacks against formation through AA area.
Flak. Over target the Group experienced intense, heavy, moderately accurate flak. Flak also found at Nis, moderate, heavy, accurate (barrage type).

Observations. At the target, smoke pots along road north of city and at several positions in city and in industrial area. Screen was fairly effective. Had not fully developed when attack was made. Seven (7) B-24's were seen to go down at and after target ... 25 - 30 chutes seen.

[Eleven damaged from flak and 3 from fighters. One (1) killed by fighters and 2 wounded by flak.]
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Cantacuzino
Posted: July 29, 2005 08:53 pm
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QUOTE
Can anyone tell more details?
Were those B 24 shoot down that day?

Denes,Cantacuzino,I'mcounting on you!


C2,

Don't count on me ( i will be listed W.I.A. after combat with your dogs)



451 BG, 5 planes lost over Romania 5 april '44.
MACR 3918 B-24 Sn 42-52474
MACR 4081 B-24 Sn 42-64442
MACR 4082 B-24 Sn 42-52081
MACR 4080 B-24 Sn 42-7720
MACR 4032 B-24 Sn 42-52103

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on July 29, 2005 09:26 pm
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Cantacuzino
Posted: July 29, 2005 09:01 pm
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450 BG looses on 5 april '44 (over Romania)
MACR 3965 B-24 Sn 42-94950

MACR 3951 B-24 “ Louisiana Lady” Sn 42-78175

MACR 3960 B-24 ‘ Two Way Stretch” Sn 42-78199

MACR 3885 B-24 Sn 42-100252

MACR 3963 B-24 "Heaven's Above" Sn 41-28757

B-24 “Lady Lee” Sn 42-64342

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on July 29, 2005 09:24 pm
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Cantacuzino
Posted: July 29, 2005 09:06 pm
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"Miss Fortune" was one fortunes B-24 returned but heavily damaged from "Ploesti hell" on 5 april '44.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on August 29, 2006 02:14 pm
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Cantacuzino
Posted: July 29, 2005 09:14 pm
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This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on August 29, 2006 02:17 pm
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Cantacuzino
Posted: July 29, 2005 09:23 pm
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This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on August 29, 2006 02:18 pm
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Cantacuzino
Posted: July 29, 2005 09:32 pm
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QUOTE
Not only Germans from JG51 but also romanians with IAR 80 and Bf 109 contributed to this massacre.


Sgt. Marinciu Ioan flying log for april '44.
He flew on 5 april Bf-109 G2 nr "N" and set on fire one engine from a B-24. Courtesy Ioan Marinciu

(IMG:http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9238/marinciu5aprilie3ge.jpg)

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on July 29, 2005 09:33 pm
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droop
Posted: October 23, 2005 09:31 am
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to whom this may concern,
going through my father's RAF logbook and browsing the internet I stumbled upon this website.
My father was Fl.Lt K.L.Jones (MIckey)
142 squadron
205 group
330 wing
From march till sept.1944 based Amendola and Regina (Foggia) he flew 39 missions among many in the Rumanian theatre:Sofia,Budapest,Bucharest,Giorgiu,Ploesti,and mining the Danube river.
If anybody would like detailed info (hight,bomload,defences)contact me through my e-mail: ajones@xs4all.nl

kind regards
Andrew Jones
Aerdenhout
The Netherlands
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Carol I
Posted: October 23, 2005 11:38 am
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Droop, there are many people interested in such information. Take a look in the thread on RAF/Commonwealth operations over Romania.
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