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> Romanian Legionary Movement
Indrid
Posted: April 30, 2005 07:12 am
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i donot belive one can use the words "nationalist" and "no hatred" in the same sentence. nationalism expresses the belief of a certain group within a country that only CERTAIN PEOPLE should enjoy the best privileges, and this selection being made according to exiasting ethnic lines. If codreanu was or was not hateful in his discourse is almost useless. the fact that it made a clear distinction between memberas and non members according to certain guidelines tells enough. i do not beive there were any jews, gypsies or Hugarians in the legion. simply because the movement had NATIONAL character.

also, i have to say that i do not agree with the line imposaed by IMPERAILIst here. i agree with him on many things, however, "well-known facts" are useless in an dialogue as controversial as this one.

i also sense a line of admiration towards the movement from what t\other mebers have said before me, and in my poiny of view, not totally unjustified. the level of the romanian society these days has gone so low due to influences that are not always "romanian", ( you will understant very well what i am refferng to), but a similar movement today would be impossible and even undesirable.

also, i am not such a big fan of ethnic cleansing princples because i believe in a man's right to defend his life, not to be tied , gagged and butchered by superior numbers. that can only prove cowardice. this is when the legion started to suck for me, when it turned into a animal movement based on principles one can only see in the behavior of dogs....

a shame too, we miss a SPARTAN movement....
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Victor
Posted: April 30, 2005 08:05 am
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Corneliu Z. Codreanu did promote hate. Horia Sima is not the one that transformed a good movement/party into a bad one. In 1923 Codreanu and his followers created a black list containing six members of the Marzescu Government, who were responisble for the law that gave citizenship to many Jews in the new provinces. He wanted to punish the Romanian "traitors" first and then deal with the main enemy - the Jews. He thought it was his mission and that of his generation to settle the "Jewish problem" in Romania. In his first parliamentary speech he stated that it was clear to him that intelligent or not, parasitary or not, moral or imoral, this population is a hostile population , here in our country. Jews were to him ruthless exploiters of the Romanian peasant that needed to be. And examples could go on. The simple fact that the Legion started the assasinations during the leadership of C. Z. Codreanu and not Horia Sima's speaks for itself about the "love and tolerance" he preached.

As I already said, IMO the article is just another atempt to whitewash the Legion of the Archangel Michael.
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Panzermahn
Posted: May 01, 2005 11:39 am
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QUOTE (Victor @ Apr 30 2005, 08:05 AM)
Corneliu Z. Codreanu did promote hate. Horia Sima is not the one that transformed a good movement/party into a bad one. In 1923 Codreanu and his followers created a black list containing six members of the Marzescu Government, who were responisble for the law that gave citizenship to many Jews in the new provinces. He wanted to punish the Romanian "traitors" first and then deal with the main enemy - the Jews. He thought it was his mission and that of his generation to settle the "Jewish problem" in Romania. In his first parliamentary speech he stated that it was clear to him that intelligent or not, parasitary or not, moral or imoral, this population is a hostile population , here in our country. Jews were to him ruthless exploiters of the Romanian peasant that needed to be. And examples could go on. The simple fact that the Legion started the assasinations during the leadership of C. Z. Codreanu and not Horia Sima's speaks for itself about the "love and tolerance" he preached.

As I already said, IMO the article is just another atempt to whitewash the Legion of the Archangel Michael.

Sources or any links to this, please?
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vicslav
Posted: May 01, 2005 02:32 pm
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>I see no hatred on the original fundamentals of Codreanu's teaching.

"Garda de fier" was a hierarchical movement under the own authority of Corneliu Zelea Codreanu.

So, was the assassination of PM Ion Duca in december 1933 by Constantinescu, Belinace and Caranica an "act of love" ?

I don't think so.

And the assassination of Stelescu by "gardists" at hospital !

Iron Guard was a violent and antisemistic movement. Like Goga's "national-crestin" movement.

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Victor
Posted: May 02, 2005 06:12 am
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QUOTE (Panzermahn @ May 1 2005, 01:39 PM)
Sources or any links to this, please?

Try Corneliu Zelea Codreanu - Parlamentar by Radu Cont in the February 1999 issue of Magazin Istoric. However, it is in Romanian.

The Legion and the National Christian Party (PNC) of Goga and Cuza were different in regards of methods and ideas about the state. The PNC didn't want to change existing parliamentary system and create a "new order" or a "new man". They were also antisemites, but wanted to achieve their goals by more peaceful methods.
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vicslav
Posted: May 02, 2005 04:18 pm
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>The PNC didn't want to change existing parliamentary system and create a "new order" or a "new man". They were also antisemites, but wanted to achieve their goals by more peaceful methods.

It's right but under the Goga's governement, a lots of violences against jews were commited.

Publication of some "jewish" newspapers like Demineata, Adevarul and Lupta was also prohibited.

And Codreanu was also a member and a disciple of Cuza's movement of LANC at the beginning.
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dragos03
Posted: May 05, 2005 05:27 pm
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The Legion was not formed in 1923, Victor, so i don't see the relevance of that "black list". And about the speech in the parliament, i don't see any hate in it. Codreanu was right, the Jews in Romania proved their hostility towards Romanians during WW1, in the areas occupied by the Central Powers.

About the murders: Duca was also a murderer and a traitor. One month before he was killed, a student (member of the Legion) was killed in Constanta without any reason by the police, on Duca's orders. 2 weeks later, thousands of members of the Legion were arrested, beaten and tortured, without any legal reason, while the Legion was ilegally outlawed. At least the criminals who shot Duca waited for the police to arrest them, they wanted to face justice for their act.
As for Stelescu's murder, it was an internal affair. The killers were his own friends and ex-comarades. Once again they waited to be arrested. Codreanu had nothing to do with these two murders.

BTW, Jewish ethnics were allowed in the Legion, if they were Christians. Only non-Christians were forbidden to join. Several Legion commanders were Jews.

By the way, Imperialist, i am still waiting for the quotes.
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Indrid
Posted: May 05, 2005 06:02 pm
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i think imperalist has left the building...

so waiting for his answer may be futile...
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Imperialist
Posted: May 06, 2005 07:51 pm
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QUOTE (dragos03 @ May 5 2005, 05:27 PM)
And about the speech in the parliament, i don't see any hate in it. Codreanu was right, the Jews in Romania proved their hostility towards Romanians during WW1, in the areas occupied by the Central Powers.

BTW, Jewish ethnics were allowed in the Legion, if they were Christians. Only non-Christians were forbidden to join. Several Legion commanders were Jews.

By the way, Imperialist, i am still waiting for the quotes.

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By the way, Imperialist, i am still waiting for the quotes.


QUOTE
And about the speech in the parliament, i don't see any hate in it. Codreanu was right, the Jews in Romania proved their hostility towards Romanians during WW1, in the areas occupied by the Central Powers.



I'm not in a hurry to waste my time searching for well-known anti-semite quotes in Codreanu's writings. Mainly because what I expected happened. You are talking about justified hate; whatever examples I would have brought, your reply would have been "he was right". You forget that your initial statement was "there is no hate" in his writings...

Also, jews are not an ethnic group per se. They are a religious group.
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Imperialist
Posted: May 06, 2005 08:02 pm
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QUOTE (Indrid @ May 5 2005, 06:02 PM)
i think imperalist has left the building...

so waiting for his answer may be futile...

Temporarily I'm back.
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dragos03
Posted: May 06, 2005 08:14 pm
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I never said that Codreanu was not anti-semite, just that he didn't hate them. He was right in his statement in the parliament and i don't see any hate in his words.
As for the "well-known quotes", you obviously don't know them.
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Imperialist
Posted: May 06, 2005 08:28 pm
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QUOTE (dragos03 @ May 6 2005, 08:14 PM)

As for the "well-known quotes", you obviously don't know them.

Haha... right. I have his writings and I know the function of CTRL+F. Inserting "jidan" (a widely used term of "affection" Codreanu used) brings up plenty of quotes. So many in fact that I dont have time to browse them to find the ones that can convince you of being hateful. Especially if you start off with the idea that hatred with some truth behind is no longer hatred...

QUOTE
I never said that Codreanu was not anti-semite, just that he didn't hate them.


Hmm... that makes sense.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on May 06, 2005 08:29 pm
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dragos03
Posted: May 06, 2005 11:20 pm
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It's useless. I will ignore your posts from now on.
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Indrid
Posted: May 07, 2005 04:42 am
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over and over again it is proven that people cannot have a dialogue on this forum.
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Imperialist
Posted: May 07, 2005 06:54 am
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QUOTE (dragos03 @ May 6 2005, 11:20 PM)
It's useless. I will ignore your posts from now on.

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Eu, cu mintea unui tânăr de 19-20 de ani, am înţeles numai atât din toate cele ce vedeam: că ne pierdem ţara, că n-o să mai avem ţară; că prin concursul inconştient al bieţilor muncitori români sărăciţi şi exploataţi, va veni peste noi stăpânitoare şi pustiitoare hoardă jidănească.

  Această luptă a fost continuată în toate oraşele: la Huşi, Vaslui, Bârlad, Botoşani, Paşcani etc., de grupul studenţilor ieşeni ajutaţi pretutindeni de elevii de liceu. Ei pătrundeau în sălile pline de jidani, aruncând peste artiştii satanei cu tot ce le cădea în mână şi alungându-i astfel de pe scena românească.

  Noi ne dădeam bine seama, din studiile pe care le făcusem, că problema jidovească are un caracter internaţional şi că reacţiunea nu poate fi decât tot pe plan internaţional; că o rezolvare totală a acestei probleme nu se poate obţine decât printr-o acţiune a tuturor neamurilor creştine trezite la conştiinţe primejdiei jidăneşti.

  Existau în Germania mai multe organizaţii politice şi doctrinare antisemite, cu multe foi, cu manifeste, cu insigne, toate însă şubrede. Studenţimea de la Berlin şi cea de le Jena era împărţită în societăţi şi număra foarte puţini antisemiţi. Masa studenţească cunoştea vag problema. De o acţiune studenţească antisemită sau măcar de o orientare doctrinară similară celei de la Iaşi nu putea fi vorba. Am avut multe discuţii cu studenţii de la Berlin, în 1922, care desigur astăzi sunt hitlerişti şi mă mândresc să le fi fost eu profesorul în antisemitism, ducându-le acolo din adevărurile învăţate la Iaşi.

  Pământul nostru a fost pământul năvălitorilor. El însă n-a cunoscut niciodată în decursul istoriei ca vreo armată să fi ajuns la formidabilul număr al jidanilor de azi. Năvălirile treceau peste noi mai departe: năvălitorii de azi nu mai pleacă. Se stabilesc aici, pe pământul nostru, într-un număr neîntâlnit până astăzi şi se prind ca râia de trupul pământului şi al naţiei.

  Când începe năvălirea jidanilor? În jurul anului 1800 găsim un număr de abia câteva mii în toată Moldova. La 1821, în Bucureşti, se aflau 120 de familii.

  În ultimă analiză, atacul iudaic asupra clasei de mijloc româneşti aici tinde: moartea, pieirea poporului român nu însemnează moartea celui din urmă român, după cum îşi imaginează unii. Moartea aceasta însemnează viaţă în sclavie. Reducerea la stare de viaţă de rob a câtorva milioane de ţărani români, care să muncească pentru jidănime.

  Problema jidănească în România ca şi aiurea constă în încălcare de către jidani a acestei legi naturale a teritoriului. Ei ne-au încălcat teritoriul nostru. Ei sunt infractorii, şi nu eu, popor român, sunt chemat să suport consecinţele infracţiunii lor. Logica elementară ne spune: infractorul trebuie să suporte consecinţele infracţiunii săvârşite. Va suferi? Nare decât să sufere. Toţi infractorii suferă.

  Pe strada Lăpuşneanu geme de durere palatul domnesc al lui Cuza-Vodă, transformat în bancă jidănească. În fosta lui grădină se ridică teatru jidănesc în stil palestinian. Străinul ne calcă în picioare tot ce avem mai sfânt.

  În 15 ani de zile au căzut Văcăreştii, vechi cartier românesc, au căzut în întregime Dudeştii, au căzut negustorii români de pe Calea Griviţei. Mor înlocuiţi de jidani vestiţii comercianţi din Obor, a căzut Calea Victoriei. Ea nu mai este astăzi decât o adevărată cale a „înfrângerii” româneşti; căci 3/4 din proprietăţile de pe Calea Victoriei sunt proprietăţi jidăneşti. De 10 ani au pătruns în Oltenia şi au intrat în Craiova lui Mihai Viteazul, au intrat în Râmnicu Vâlcea, au intrat în Severin, sub protecţia politicienilor români, care, bine plătiţi, pretind că nu există problemă jidănească. Acestor politicieni, a căror trădare faţă de neam este aşa de îngrozitoare, dacă sunt vii, neamul va trebui să le scoată ochii; dacă sunt morţi, va trebui să-i scoată din morminte şi să le dea foc ciolanelor, în pieţele publice. Pe copiii şi nepoţii lor, neamul va trebui să-i urmărească în averi, confiscându-le şi să-i stigmatizeze cu epitetul de „copii de trădători”.


Well, here it is, I took my time and posted this filth.
You still continue to say there is no hatred in his writings? The guy is paranoid in some of his statements too.

p.s. If we are to read and believe all nationalist paranoid statements we'd have to think Romania is long gone... strangely, its still here. And land is being sold to foreigners too. Oh my!!! We're gonna die... :lol: Too bad we have no more jews for scapegoats, we are left with our romanian politicians. Hmm, thats bad, the politicians can no longer hide their incompetence and corruption throwing it upon a minority group. Thats got to hurt! Wheres the romanian movement of outrage? Where are the mobilisations against the guilty parties? Oh well, nowhere... :lol:
People are easily stirred into magnifying and mobing against a minority's vices but are completely blind or inactive about their own group's vices.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on May 07, 2005 06:58 am
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