Romanian Legionary Movement

i donot belive one can use the words "nationalist" and "no hatred" in the same sentence. nationalism expresses the belief of a certain group within a country that only CERTAIN PEOPLE should enjoy the best privileges, and this selection being made according to exiasting ethnic lines. If codreanu was or was not hateful in his discourse is almost useless. the fact that it made a clear distinction between memberas and non members according to certain guidelines tells enough. i do not beive there were any jews, gypsies or Hugarians in the legion. simply because the movement had NATIONAL character.

also, i have to say that i do not agree with the line imposaed by IMPERAILIst here. i agree with him on many things, however, "well-known facts" are useless in an dialogue as controversial as this one.

i also sense a line of admiration towards the movement from what t\other mebers have said before me, and in my poiny of view, not totally unjustified. the level of the romanian society these days has gone so low due to influences that are not always "romanian", ( you will understant very well what i am refferng to), but a similar movement today would be impossible and even undesirable.

also, i am not such a big fan of ethnic cleansing princples because i believe in a man's right to defend his life, not to be tied , gagged and butchered by superior numbers. that can only prove cowardice. this is when the legion started to suck for me, when it turned into a animal movement based on principles one can only see in the behavior of dogs....

a shame too, we miss a SPARTAN movement....

Corneliu Z. Codreanu did promote hate. Horia Sima is not the one that transformed a good movement/party into a bad one. In 1923 Codreanu and his followers created a black list containing six members of the Marzescu Government, who were responisble for the law that gave citizenship to many Jews in the new provinces. He wanted to punish the Romanian "traitors" first and then deal with the main enemy - the Jews. He thought it was his mission and that of his generation to settle the "Jewish problem" in Romania. In his first parliamentary speech he stated that it was clear to him that intelligent or not, parasitary or not, moral or imoral, this population is a hostile population , here in our country. Jews were to him ruthless exploiters of the Romanian peasant that needed to be. And examples could go on. The simple fact that the Legion started the assasinations during the leadership of C. Z. Codreanu and not Horia Sima's speaks for itself about the "love and tolerance" he preached.

As I already said, IMO the article is just another atempt to whitewash the Legion of the Archangel Michael.

Sources or any links to this, please?

>I see no hatred on the original fundamentals of Codreanu's teaching.

"Garda de fier" was a hierarchical movement under the own authority of Corneliu Zelea Codreanu.

So, was the assassination of PM Ion Duca in december 1933 by Constantinescu, Belinace and Caranica an "act of love" ?

I don't think so.

And the assassination of Stelescu by "gardists" at hospital !

Iron Guard was a violent and antisemistic movement. Like Goga's "national-crestin" movement.

Try Corneliu Zelea Codreanu - Parlamentar by Radu Cont in the February 1999 issue of Magazin Istoric. However, it is in Romanian.

The Legion and the National Christian Party (PNC) of Goga and Cuza were different in regards of methods and ideas about the state. The PNC didn't want to change existing parliamentary system and create a "new order" or a "new man". They were also antisemites, but wanted to achieve their goals by more peaceful methods.

>The PNC didn't want to change existing parliamentary system and create a "new order" or a "new man". They were also antisemites, but wanted to achieve their goals by more peaceful methods.

It's right but under the Goga's governement, a lots of violences against jews were commited.

Publication of some "jewish" newspapers like Demineata, Adevarul and Lupta was also prohibited.

And Codreanu was also a member and a disciple of Cuza's movement of LANC at the beginning.

The Legion was not formed in 1923, Victor, so i don't see the relevance of that "black list". And about the speech in the parliament, i don't see any hate in it. Codreanu was right, the Jews in Romania proved their hostility towards Romanians during WW1, in the areas occupied by the Central Powers.

About the murders: Duca was also a murderer and a traitor. One month before he was killed, a student (member of the Legion) was killed in Constanta without any reason by the police, on Duca's orders. 2 weeks later, thousands of members of the Legion were arrested, beaten and tortured, without any legal reason, while the Legion was ilegally outlawed. At least the criminals who shot Duca waited for the police to arrest them, they wanted to face justice for their act.
As for Stelescu's murder, it was an internal affair. The killers were his own friends and ex-comarades. Once again they waited to be arrested. Codreanu had nothing to do with these two murders.

BTW, Jewish ethnics were allowed in the Legion, if they were Christians. Only non-Christians were forbidden to join. Several Legion commanders were Jews.

By the way, Imperialist, i am still waiting for the quotes.

i think imperalist has left the building...

so waiting for his answer may be futile...

I'm not in a hurry to waste my time searching for well-known anti-semite quotes in Codreanu's writings. Mainly because what I expected happened. You are talking about justified hate; whatever examples I would have brought, your reply would have been "he was right". You forget that your initial statement was "there is no hate" in his writings...

Also, jews are not an ethnic group per se. They are a religious group.

Temporarily I'm back.

I never said that Codreanu was not anti-semite, just that he didn't hate them. He was right in his statement in the parliament and i don't see any hate in his words.
As for the "well-known quotes", you obviously don't know them.

Haha... right. I have his writings and I know the function of CTRL+F. Inserting "jidan" (a widely used term of "affection" Codreanu used) brings up plenty of quotes. So many in fact that I dont have time to browse them to find the ones that can convince you of being hateful. Especially if you start off with the idea that hatred with some truth behind is no longer hatred...

Hmm... that makes sense.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on May 06, 2005 08:29 pm

It's useless. I will ignore your posts from now on.

over and over again it is proven that people cannot have a dialogue on this forum.

Well, here it is, I took my time and posted this filth.
You still continue to say there is no hatred in his writings? The guy is paranoid in some of his statements too.

p.s. If we are to read and believe all nationalist paranoid statements we'd have to think Romania is long gone... strangely, its still here. And land is being sold to foreigners too. Oh my!!! We're gonna die... Too bad we have no more jews for scapegoats, we are left with our romanian politicians. Hmm, thats bad, the politicians can no longer hide their incompetence and corruption throwing it upon a minority group. Thats got to hurt! Wheres the romanian movement of outrage? Where are the mobilisations against the guilty parties? Oh well, nowhere...
People are easily stirred into magnifying and mobing against a minority's vices but are completely blind or inactive about their own group's vices.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on May 07, 2005 06:58 am