Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



Pages: (2) 1 [2]   ( Go to first unread post ) Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> «British Power Boat» class fate.
Sachsen
Posted: March 30, 2009 04:47 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 11
Member No.: 551
Joined: March 27, 2005



Excuse for a mistake, photos are taken from the book dr. ing. Cristian Craciunoiu " Vedetele Torpiloare din Marina Romana "
PMEmail Poster
Top
Petre
Posted: May 05, 2009 06:46 pm
Quote Post


Capitan
*

Group: Members
Posts: 686
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



On the site forums.airbase.ru, somebody wrote on Feb.2006 :
From the Romanian section of the future dictionary "МК" (?) about All East and South Europe WW2 (?) - as preliminary :
Torpedo boats of type "ТМ" (6 units) :
“Vedenia”, “Vantul”, “Vijelia”, “Viforul”, “Vartejul”, “Vulcanul”.
Have entered into system 1942.
32 tonns, 21,34×4,1×1,4 m; 3 gasoline 2850 HP; 35 kts. Crew 14, 2 - 533 mm TT, 2×1 - 20 mm.
Former Dutch TMB series ТМ 52, which were under construction on shipyard Gusto in Shiedam (British Power Boat licence). The Dutch numbers, presumably, TM-62 – TM-67. In May 1940 are grasped by Ge. on building berths and included in Ge.Navy as S-203 – S-208 (?), in the end of 1941 are sold (?) to Romania, in not complete condition, towed on Danube to Galatzi Shipyard 20.3.1942, on the way having received ice damages. Were complete motorised and armed since Jun. 1942. Named No. 4-9. First three ready 22.11.1942, other three 24.12.1942. Actually because of absence of engine couplers and of some other systems, long time were disabled. “Vedenia”, “Vantul” and “Vulcanul” was definitively completed by the end of 1943, and the others three – only in Apr.-May 1944. Wooden hulls (?), engines Rolls-Royce Merlin III, but the absence of spare parts has generate considerable difficulties. Were armed by 20 mm aviation guns Hispano-Suiza, at some low-caliber MG's were mounted. Just limited applications, basically escort missions. Five units 5.9.1944 have passed under Sov. control in Constanza. “Vedenia”, some time used for Sov.Command needs, then seized Sep.10, 1944. In Sov.Black Sea Fleet as ТК-951 – ТК-954, ТК-956 - TK-957. Returned to Romania Oct.12, 1945 in Galatzi, but not re-included in Ro.Navy because of bad technical condition and absence of spare parts. Later have been broken.

This post has been edited by Petre on October 18, 2011 08:27 am
PMEmail Poster
Top
Tiornu
Posted: April 08, 2011 11:32 pm
Quote Post


Fruntas
*

Group: Members
Posts: 83
Member No.: 75
Joined: August 08, 2003



QUOTE (Petre @ March 24, 2009 04:23 pm)
The TM-51 class, Dockyard NV Werf Gusto, Schiedam, NL.
The prototype built 1939 in England at the Power Boat Company. The Gusto Dockyard received the order for ten units, numbering TM-52 to 61, of which the first two apparently were identical to the prototype, but the others seemed to be considerably larger. The boats, uncompleted at the dockyard, were captured by the Germans. The work on TM-52 and 53 had progressed far enough to complete her, and they were commissioned in 08.1940. The others were commissioned in the period between 12.1941 and 09.1942 with modified designs by Fr.Lussen Werft in Vegesack, Germany. TM-52, 53, 58, 59 passed to Bulgaria, the others, to Romania (completted in Galatzi shipyard, renamed Vedenia, Vântul, Vijelia, Viforul, Vârtejul and Vulcanul). The boats sailed from Germany on Danube River. No relevant missions. The Soviets confiscated 4 boats in Varna and 4 boats in Constanta ( not clear aboat Vijelia and Viforul), later returned. Deleted in 50's.

This is very informative. Where did you find this material?
PM
Top
Petre
Posted: April 09, 2011 06:36 am
Quote Post


Capitan
*

Group: Members
Posts: 686
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



It started with Google search :
http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/TM51_his.htm
(Try to read all links before.)
Then, my conclusion has come.
But I found something new :
http://s-boot.net/sboats-kriegsmarine-types.html
QUOTE
Netherlands Loot-Boats
S 151
... eight boats under construction at Gusto were confiscated and finished for the Kriegsmarine... They were commissioned in 1942 as "S 151" - "S 158". The boats "S 159" - "S 166" ordered at Gusto V.V. in 1941 were stopped in April 1942.
S 201
"TM 52" and "TM 53" already finished by Gusto were conquered during the occupation and commissioned and tested by the Kriegsmarine as "S 201" and "S 202". Their armament was reconfigured according to German conception to 1 x 37 and 2 x 20... their seabehaviour was not up to the German wishes. Therefore the boats were given to Bulgaria in 1942. Five other boats built by Gusto N.V. under German direction were given to Romania and Bulgaria.
PMEmail Poster
Top
Radub
Posted: April 09, 2011 08:46 am
Quote Post


General de corp de armata
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1670
Member No.: 476
Joined: January 23, 2005



QUOTE (Petre @ March 28, 2009 04:37 pm)
My intent is to visit "Muzeul Marinei Romane", maybe I'll find a picture with Gusto, to see how she looks, small or longer.

The Navy Museum in Constanta has little information on the Gusto MTBs, but they still have one of the turrets from such a MTB on display.

To help you with your research, it is worth considering that the design is based on the British Power Boat Company (BPB) 70ft Private Venture (PV70) MTB.

Google "British Power Boat Company PV70 MTB"

This was also built by Elco as the "Elco 70ft PT" but with a variety of elaborate upper structures and was further developed into other very successful types.

The RAF used it also a a "rescue launch" (no torpedo tubes, light armament).

If you are into MTBs, a very good book that is worth reading is "Allied Coastal Forces of World War II, Volume II: Vosper MTBs & U.S. ELCOs" by John Lambert & Al Ross.
The book has no info on the BPBs in Romania (though it deals briefly with the Romanian Vospers), but it shows the lineage and development of the BPB PV70 in America.

HTH
Radu
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
bansaraba
Posted: April 09, 2011 10:00 am
Quote Post


Sergent
*

Group: Members
Posts: 184
Member No.: 2196
Joined: July 20, 2008



Here is a color picture of "Viscolul" from WWII (Military History of Romanian People, vol. 6):

(IMG:http://www.cartula.ro/forum/post-a60782-Viscolul.jpg)

What are those flags?
PMEmail Poster
Top
Radub
Posted: April 09, 2011 10:13 am
Quote Post


General de corp de armata
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1670
Member No.: 476
Joined: January 23, 2005



QUOTE (bansaraba @ April 09, 2011 10:00 am)
What are those flags?

Flag semaphore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_semaphore

Later edit. Looks like the photo may be a "colourised" black and white photo. The flag should be blue and white not red and white.

HTH
Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on April 09, 2011 10:15 am
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
bansaraba
Posted: April 09, 2011 10:29 am
Quote Post


Sergent
*

Group: Members
Posts: 184
Member No.: 2196
Joined: July 20, 2008



It is not colorized, in fact it has the characteristic hues of Agfacolor films. I've digged up a bit about the flags and it seems they are the letter "C" in German flag code. I'm not sure about their significance, though.
PMEmail Poster
Top
Radub
Posted: April 09, 2011 10:53 am
Quote Post


General de corp de armata
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1670
Member No.: 476
Joined: January 23, 2005



I just looked in the Modelism book on Romanian MTBs and there is one more photo that shows the flag was red and white.
Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on April 09, 2011 11:16 am
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Tiornu
Posted: April 09, 2011 12:39 pm
Quote Post


Fruntas
*

Group: Members
Posts: 83
Member No.: 75
Joined: August 08, 2003



The Netherlands web site gives a clue about why this matter has been so confusing for me. Lenton's book about the Dutch Navy confuses the TM51 type with the larger TM54, saying that the Bulgarians got enough TM54's (the German S151-158 type) to have a total of eight MTBs (though I believe they had only seven, according to Todorov's book The Ships of the Bulgarian Navy). Maybe the Dutch hull numbers have caused the trouble. The smaller boats were numbered (apparently) TM51-53, 63-70, overlapping the larger boats TM54-61. (Where is TM62?) My older Groner edition makes a little error in forgetting S210 (TM70).
Todorov describes all Gusto boats as the same size.
The sovnavy-ww2.by.ru site appears to make the same mistake as Conway's Fighting Ships, saying the Romanians got only four Power boats. Because it forgets Viforul and Vijelia, I think it must be because of the reused names.
Groner does not mention S159-166, so I think navyworld.narod.ru site must be mistaken on that.
Does sovnavy-ww2.by.ru, vimpel.boinaslava.net, or navyworld.narod.ru list its sources?
PM
Top
Petre
Posted: April 10, 2011 08:13 am
Quote Post


Capitan
*

Group: Members
Posts: 686
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



PMEmail Poster
Top
Sachsen
Posted: May 06, 2011 07:43 am
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 11
Member No.: 551
Joined: March 27, 2005



QUOTE (Tiornu @ April 09, 2011 12:39 pm)
Groner does not mention S159-166, so I think navyworld.narod.ru site must be mistaken on that.
Does sovnavy-ww2.by.ru, vimpel.boinaslava.net, or navyworld.narod.ru list its sources?

Hallo Tiornu!
Furthermore Groener, I use a large number of other sources.
http://navyworld.narod.ru/Bibliography.doc

On the boat S-159-166 can be found here:
http://www.deutschekriegsmarine.de/hauptte...il_typ_s_26.htm
http://www.dutchfleet.net/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2615&start=15
http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/shi...1940/ships.html

Regards, Senotrusov Viatcheslav (www. navyworld.narod.ru)
PMEmail Poster
Top
Tiornu
Posted: May 10, 2011 07:14 pm
Quote Post


Fruntas
*

Group: Members
Posts: 83
Member No.: 75
Joined: August 08, 2003



Excellent! Thank you very much.
PM
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Pages: (2) 1 [2]  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.0258 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]