«British Power Boat» class fate.

[Sachsen]

Please, suggest about fate of boats of the «British Power Boat» class after September 5 1944, whether they were reset from USSR and whether included in Romanian navy of a boat of the MAS class.

[Iamandi]

This subject - Power Torpedo Boat - was presented in an old issue of Modelism magazine, before 1990. But - maybe i'm wron - in that article says Romania received Power TB from Germany, or Italy. Or, was about the torbedo tubes/launchers provenience?
Of course, i ask miself why Germany or Italy used "Power" word...

Maybe, someone know more exact data. I also want to know more.

Iama

[Victor]

The Germans captured the boats in a shipyard in Holland in 1940. Their official name was Gusto Power Boats.

[Petre]

The TM-51 class, Dockyard NV Werf Gusto, Schiedam, NL.
The prototype built 1939 in England at the Power Boat Company. The Gusto Dockyard received the order for ten units, numbering TM-52 to 61, of which the first two apparently were identical to the prototype, but the others seemed to be considerably larger. The boats, uncompleted at the dockyard, were captured by the Germans. The work on TM-52 and 53 had progressed far enough to complete her, and they were commissioned in 08.1940. The others were commissioned in the period between 12.1941 and 09.1942 with modified designs by Fr.Lussen Werft in Vegesack, Germany. TM-52, 53, 58, 59 passed to Bulgaria, the others, to Romania (completted in Galatzi shipyard, renamed Vedenia, Vântul, Vijelia, Viforul, Vârtejul and Vulcanul). The boats sailed from Germany on Danube River. No relevant missions. The Soviets confiscated 4 boats in Varna and 4 boats in Constanta ( not clear about Vijelia and Viforul), later returned. Deleted in 50's.

This post has been edited by Petre on October 18, 2011 08:21 am

[Sachsen]

Unfortunately only in Russian
http://navyworld.narod.ru/sbexp.htm

FREE ONLINE TRANSLATOR AND DICTIONARY
http://www.online-translator.com/Default.aspx?prmtlang=en

This post has been edited by Sachsen on March 26, 2009 04:27 am

[Petre]

Hello Sachsen and thanks. I can read in Russian. There are some differerences in :
http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru
( Boevye katera, Typ „BPB”) most accurate webpages, in Russian.
Also see good info’s :
http://vimpel.boinaslava.net/index.php?module=bg_TKA_BPB
in Bulgarian (!), with their story.
The TM 51 class appear on :
http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/TM51_his.htm
but unfortnately incorrect in his conclusion.

[Sachsen]

Hello Petre! Unfortunately on a site:
http://vimpel.boinaslava.net/index.php?module=bg_TKA_BPB - there is a small mistake under the Dutch and German names of boats 6 and 7.
Boats of type S 151 - S 158 are the further development German Schnellboote while boats of type S 201 - S 210 were under construction on the basis of Dutch type TM-51. It is Enough to look at photos and schemes of boats of type S 151 - S 158 to see, that they cannot concern to type TM-51 in any way.
http://www.foerderverein-museums-schnellbo...arine-typen.htm
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/km/sboot/sdiv-mm.htm
http://www.schnellboot.net/de/kriegsmarine...oote/index.html
On boats TM-63 and TM-64, specified a site http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/mtb/bpb.htm what exactly they are boats 6 and 7, I can not agree, as the information on exact renaming boats is extremely poor to do final conclusions.

This post has been edited by Sachsen on March 26, 2009 06:44 pm

[Petre]

Well, Sachsen, today surfing the net, maybe I found the winner :
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/S-Boote3.htm
Conclusion : 2 Gusto TM 52-53 (sabotated), smaller type, become S 201-202, then passed to Bulgaria (re-motorised on RollsRoyce). 8 Gusto TM 54-61, larger type, become S 151-158 ( 7. S-boot flottille ), and 8 remaining Gusto (…) aka S-159-166 (unfinished ???)… must be what we are looking for : 2 for Bulgaria and 6 for Roumania (all on RollsRoyce Merlin, from british wreck-planes).
I think no more hulls, but can’t be sure.
The pictures in RU and BG sites show ( and I don't know why ) only the smaller model ( continuous deck, tubes on deck ) On GE sites, the hulls have forecastle, covering tubes.

[Sachsen]

Hello Petre! And why you do not consider, what boats S 159 - S 166 can be continuation of type S 151??? On boats S 201 - S 210 - if at you does not cause trust my site - http://navyworld.narod.ru/sb5.htm take please the directory all dear E. Groener "Die deutschen Kriegsschiffe 1815-1945 " Band 2 Torpedoboote, Zerstoerer, Schnellboote, Minensuchboote, Minenraeumboote and on pages 171-172 (the edition of 1999) or on page 145 (the edition of 1983) you can familiarize, that the dear master considers about these boats.
S 201 - S 202 x TM 52-53, S 203- S 210 x TM 63-70
a) Niederlaend. Torpedo-Motorboten (Typ brit. Power-boat, Lizenzbau der Werft) Stahl-V-Spant-Wellenbinder mit 1 Stufe / Seitenhoehe 2,52 m.
3 Rolls-Royce-Merlin ..zyl.-Viertakt-Otto / 3 Ruder.
c) 2 Decks-Tr-53,3 (2) / 1 Mk-3,7 (2000) / 2 - 2 (4000) / 6 WaBos.
d) Ab Beaufort 3 eingeschraenkte Seefaehigkeit; bereits bei Seegang 1-2 starke Erschuetterungen, die Ausguck, Navigation und FT-Bedienung stark beeintraechtigen.
Monoevrieren bei hohen Geschwindigkeiten sehr gut. Drehkreis kleiner als bei deutschen S-Booten; bei geringen Fahrtstufen jedoch Umkehr dieses Verhaeltnisses! Anlegemanoever oft schwierig, da alle Schrauben rechtsgaengig, Boote beim Rueckwaertslaufen nur sehr langsam ansprachen und schon geringer Wind aufgrund des hohen Vorschiffes ein Abtreiben verursachte = Einschleppen wurde angeraten.
e) Besatzung: 14 /
f) Probefahrtergebnis S 202 ohne Ausruestung auf der Maas max. 42,5 kn; mit deutschen Tr-53,3 anstelle der vorgesehenen Tr-45 max. 34,5 kn. Ab S 204 wegen Mangels an Tr Fertigstellung als Ujaeger ohne Tr (Ersatzboote fuer Schnelle U-Jagdgruppe) geplant (11.40).
g) S 201 x TM 52 ( . .40) A 20.8.40, 12.9.40 zur Erprobung an 2. S-Fl.; gestrichen aus der Liste der Kriegsschiffe 20.1.41, an Bulgarien verkauft; Nr. 4, 9.44 sowj. Beute: TKA 961, 2.4.45 re: Nr. 4, 1960 gestrichen aus der Liste der Kriegsschiffe.
S 202 x TM 53 ( . .40) 17.9.40, zur Erprobung an 2. S-Fl.; gestrichen aus der Liste der Kriegsschiffe 20.1.41, an Bulgarien verkauft; Nr. 5, 9.44 sowj. Beute: TKA 962, 2.4.45 re: Nr. 5, 1960 gestrichen aus der Liste der Kriegsschiffe.
S 203-210 x TM 63-70 12.40 Bau wegen fehlender Tr und Wendegetriebe gestoppt, fertiges Baumaterial (evtl. auch Fertigbauten7) Mitte 1941 bis Ende 1942 an Rumaenien und Bulgarien verkauft: bulg. F 6-7, 9.44 sowj. Beute: TKA 964-965, 2.4.45 re: F 6-7, 1960 br.

[Petre]

Hallo again Sachsen, what we have :
http://navyworld.narod.ru/sb5.htm says : S 203-210 were S 201 type, smaller, and all 8 boats passed to BG & RO. Were parts, taked from Gusto.
http://navyworld.narod.ru/sb4.htm says, (like lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de) : S 159-166 ( buid M 106-113), type S 151, larger, were parts, taked from Gusto, and …Die 1941 bei Gusto in Auftrag gegebenen Boote S 159 - S 166 wurden im April 1942 stillgelegt.
German sites do not speak aboat S 203-210, can be the same 8 boats, S 159-166 !
http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/TM51_his.htm says : „The Gusto Dockyard received the order for ten units, numbering TM-52 to 61, of which the first two apparently were identical to the prototype, but the others seemed to be considerably larger. A second order was placed in March 1940, numbering TM-62 to TM-70.” I think they were also larger type.
http://vimpel.boinaslava.net/index.php?module=bg_TKA_BPB describes their boats No.6, 7 as larger, differing of smaller No.4, 5.
http://reocities.com/MotorCity/Freeway/733...Arm.html#vedete
also describes romanian Gusto's as larger type.
The dear master E. Groener in fact talks aboat S 201-202.
So, what can I say ?

This post has been edited by Petre on May 07, 2011 02:04 pm

[Sachsen]

Good afternoon Petre! I have stated the point of view, I consider, that the Romanian and Bulgarian boats are was German S 203 - S 210 as well as it is specified at Groener. Though I earlier also found some discrepancies at Groener, but not in this case. Respectfully.

[Petre]

Dear Sachsen, let's have a break. My intent is to visit "Muzeul Marinei Romane", maybe I'll find a picture with Gusto, to see how she looks, small or longer. See you soon !

[Sachsen]

№ 5 "Vântul"




№ 9 "Vulcanul"


This post has been edited by Sachsen on March 29, 2009 04:26 am

[Petre]

Thank's for pictures. I can see small boats, with 2 Deck T.Tubes-53,3. Bye !

This post has been edited by Petre on May 07, 2011 01:12 pm

[Victor]

Sachsen,

Please mention the sources for the photos you posted, as required by the forum rules. Thank you.