Was Romania right to join the Axis?

[Chandernagore]

Nurse ! Führerul has escaped again.

[inahurry]

"Revisionist" historians don't deny war crimes committed against Jews or other people by Germans troops and authorities during the WW2. But "facts" that are long abandoned even by many Jews, like the 6 million figure or the soap or the gas chambers at Auschwitz, are throrughly proved false. But the problem lies elsewhere and I will quote someone who puts it far better than I can :

"But whether "iconic figures" affirm or question the official accounts is actually beside the point. The fundamental fact of the matter is that absent freedom of inquiry (where no one is punished for his views) it is impossible to rationally study any issue. The official Holocaust story enjoys a status in the West parallel to that of Lysenkoist biology in Stalinist Russia, where public disagreement with its radical-environmentalist presumptions meant a trip to a forced labor camp, and the only biology one was allowed to study was Lysenkoist. Obviously, then, everything a loyal biology student read would confirm Lysenkoist biology, just as everything produced in mainstream circles today confirms the official Holocaust story."
( http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/fields_antisem.htm )

The repressive laws adopted by some countries (NOT by USA though, which speaks favorably of a country otherwise very criticized lately and for good reason) are not democratic and they should be and they are contested and eventually they will be repelled. For now, I have the right to contest these kinds of restrictions and show them as dangerous.

[Victor]

QUOTE

Victor, I think the word Holocaust means in their language \"Death by Fire\", and I don't think the Romanian Army used fire in dealing with Jewish Terrorist Partisans at Odessa or anywhere else. 8)

This is probably the most cynical point of view I seen so far on the forum and is shameful. I will give you a warning. Next time you are out of here.

Read:
http://worldwar2.ro/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118

[Victor]

Chandernagore,
Romania had bad relationships with the 1940 neighbours, because of the four, three were former WWI enemies. Relations with Yugoslavia were better during the inter-war period, but its leaning towards Germany in the late 30s, while Romania was leaning towards France and the UK, meant a bit colder relations.

The two friends Romania had in its neighbourhood during the inter-war period were gone in 1939. We were not the unfriendly warmongers you seem to picture us. Actually Romania tried to get closer to the SU, but it was not possible.

[Chandernagore]

QUOTE

But \"facts\" that are long abandoned even by many Jews, like the 6 million figure or the soap or the gas chambers at Auschwitz, are throrughly proved false.

By Furherul's deep analysis ?

QUOTE

\"But whether \"iconic figures\" affirm or question the official accounts is actually beside the point. The fundamental fact of the matter is that absent freedom of inquiry (where no one is punished for his views) it is impossible to rationally study any issue.

The issue has been rationally studied and documented. Everything needed is available and can be consulted. You may go to Germany, Poland and see by yourself. A *lot* of stuff there, more than you can swallow.

But you are not interested. Your mind is made up, I know your kind. And I know the only answer to deal with it.

QUOTE

The repressive laws adopted by some countries (NOT by USA though, which speaks favorably of a country otherwise very criticized lately and for good reason) are not democratic and they should be and they are contested and eventually they will be repelled. For now, I have the right to contest these kinds of restrictions and show them as dangerous.

But not as dangerous as you. Democracies have witnessed how the nazis have destroyed the republic of Weimar from within using democracy's own tools. There was a learning process at work here and it's not so easy today. In the US another kind of approach has been considered :

"Limiting freedom of expression through social pressure is counter-productive. It seeks to avoid the unpleasant realities of dealing with the way people really think. You run the risk of keeping certain beliefs or ideas hidden, yet still present. Limiting freedom of expression in this manner, in effect, builds a beautiful facade over a rotting structure."

Russ Kitchen

The reasoning has merits. Alas it may not always be sufficient.

Ultimately the answer to the rotting structure lies in my current signature

[Chandernagore]

QUOTE

Chandernagore, The two friends Romania had in its neighbourhood during the inter-war period were gone in 1939. We were not the unfriendly warmongers you seem to picture us. Actually Romania tried to get closer to the SU, but it was not possible.

I was genuinely interested. Sorry if I have given such an impression.

[inahurry]

QUOTE

But you are not interested. Your mind is made up,  I know your kind. And I know the only answer to deal with it.

I'm not interested by the rest of this charaters' post ( he can rant as much as he likes and believe whatever he wants- it is his adrenaline and his nerves and he can spend them how he likes ) as long he expresses general opinions but I demand flatly he is banned for making transparent threats against my person. Pure and simple.

[Chandernagore]

Sit down, inahurry and take a deep breath. You're still alive, you know. I didn't target your precious little person but made a general comment on the way western democracies are dealing with fascist ideas today.

Tss, see what are you doing with my democratic freedom of speech ?

[inahurry]

Victor,

You read that guy's post and you'll decide. I want to stress I'm not bothered by insults and certainly I'm not afraid of that kind of threats. The guy is unstable though, there's one thing to "attack" someone, even biased, selecting whatever quotes out of context, put labels, that happens, but this one suddendly jumps out of the charts. I thought at first it is hate, probably it is, but I believe he has moments when he is not in control. If he is and does it on purpose then for sure needs to be banned. If he's not, I don't know what to say.

[Victor]

You guys need to cool it down. You both made rather offensive posts towards eachother, but I didn't see anything really out of hand so far. But I feel that this topic is nearing its closure, despite efforts to steer discussion away in another direction.

[Chandernagore]

QUOTE

You guys need to cool it down. You both made rather offensive posts towards eachother, but I didn't see anything really out of hand so far. But I feel that this topic is nearing its closure, despite efforts to steer discussion away in another direction.

Mmm, I detect a trend here whereby every folder in which I start countering extrem-right wing people is steering toward closure. This is unfortunate. I can understand admin reponsibilties and I think you're doing a fine all-around job. But is closure the only answer to this specific case ?

The stakes here are higher and quite more serious than simple multifacet nationalism which you may like or dislike, no big deal. I'm essentially taking on a small group of people with common characteristics : holocaust denial, clear pro-fascist leanings etc... who, by the sheer abundance of their unchallenged posts, leave a bad taste to the whole site... Even an admin can't be everywhere.

Like the creator of this folder, Thomas V who looks like a Flemish neo-nazi. Consider his signature : Avatar is Tony V.D., good friend and former SS-Ostuf. and SS-Staf. of Germanic-SS Flanders.
The guy openly admits friendship (if not admiration) for a former SS officer (the scum of the earth). In a lot of forums he would not even be allowed to register, let alone post his garbage under such a logo. When such guys are allowed to post, they ought to be challenged, for the sake of equilibrium.

I do not consider the values of democracy as a gift from heaven, which would be somehow garanteed and indestructible. They never were. So when I'm in the right mood, I go out hunting a bit. It never hurts.

[Chandernagore]

QUOTE

Victor, You read that guy's post and you'll decide. I want to stress I'm not bothered by insults and certainly I'm not afraid of that kind of threats. The guy is unstable though, there's one thing to \"attack\" someone, even biased, selecting whatever quotes out of context, put labels, that happens, but this one suddendly jumps out of the charts. I thought at first it is hate, probably it is, but I believe he has moments when he is not in control. If he is and does it on purpose then for sure needs to be banned. If he's not, I don't know what to say.

Puerile.

[Victor]

The closure has nothing to do with you or another member, but with the uncivilized way you guys choose to carry out your discussions.

I haven't noticed any unchallenged holocaust denial so far and the way you do it does not help at all.

Unprovoked personal attacks like the one on Thomas V. will not be tolerated here. For God's sake, you do not even know the man or even talked with him.