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> Sources on Danube Naval Actions 1944-45
Dr_V
Posted: August 12, 2003 07:54 pm
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That's OK Victor. I hope you're not angry with me for that reply. :)
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Th. Dorgeist
Posted: August 12, 2003 08:10 pm
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Fruntas
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Hallo,

die ungarische Hochseeschiffahrt fuhr auf allen Meeren und hatte besonders im Schwarzen Meer bei den Transporten viele Angriffe durch sowj. U-Boote und besonders Luftwaffe.

Die Donauschiffahrt hatte viele Verluste durch britische Minen und Luftangriffe und die
Ungarische Donauflottille kämpfte nach allen Seiten bis zu letzten Tag des Krieges in Bayern.

Vielleicht kommt eines Tages noch die Zeit das diese Tatsache durch einige besondere Arbeiten weltweit und international etwas bekannter wird.

Ich hoffe es und würde jederzeit mein Material bei steuern.

Grüße

Theo

Hello,

the Hungarian high sea navigation drove on all seas and had particularly in the black sea in the case of the transportation many attacks through sowj. Submarines and particularly Air Force.

Danube shipping had many losses by British mines and air raids and the Hungarian Danube flotilla fought after all sides up to last day of the war in Bavaria.

Perhaps a daily still the time comes this fact by some special work becomes world-wide and internationally somewhat more well-known.

I hope it and my material with would at any time steer.

Greet

Theo
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Victor
Posted: August 12, 2003 08:17 pm
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QUOTE
hi was an ... admiral (altengernagy) the next, highest rank, after the rear-admiral (I don't know the exact English word).


It's Viceadmiral.
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Victor
Posted: August 12, 2003 08:19 pm
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Hello Viktor,  
in very many sources one can read like many ships the Romanian rivermonitors on the Danube in August and September 1944 captured and/or sank.  

Theo


Sorry, I only have a list of Romanian losses on the Danube.
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Th. Dorgeist
Posted: August 13, 2003 06:24 am
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Fruntas
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Hallo Viktor,

für mich wäre es schon interessant zu erfahren ob die Kriegstagebücher der rumänischen Kanonenboote überhaupt noch vorhanden sind zu den Gefechten nach dem 24. August 1944.
In Zeiten des kalten Krieges ist es mir einmal gelungen, ich glaube im Tausch gegen Informationen zu deutschen Minenfeldern im Schwarzen Meer, zwei Dokumente aus Rumänien nach diesem Zeitpunkt zu erhalten.

Aus dem Bericht Nr. 36773 v. 1. September 1944.. 12 Uhr.

"In der Nacht vom 31 August 1944 auf 1 September 1944
wurde das Schiff "OITUZ, welches sich im Hafen Konstantza,
verankert bei Liegeplatz 22 befand, durch ein Torpedo ge-
troffen und am Heck beschädigt; wodurch dieser Schiffsteil
versank
Man vermutet, dass der Angriff durch ein deutsches Untersee-
boot oder Schnellboot verursacht wurde."

Archiv des Ministeriums für Nationale Verteidigung
Fach 1401.Dossier Nr. 150, Blatt 75

Aus dem Bericht Nr. 12 v. 3o. Setember 1944 des Kommandanten
des Schiffes CHICULESCO IOAN

Kapitänleutnant Costin N. Constantin

1 September 1944, Stunde 3. eine grosse Detonation
alarmiert die Mannschaft.
Das Heck des Schiffes " OITUZ „ versinkt, glaube, dass es
die Wirkung einer Miene ist.
Im Laufe des Tages erfahre ich, dass ein deutsches U-Boot,
welches sich bei der Einfahrt des Hafens befand, mehrere
Torpedos in Richtung Hafenbecken, abgeschossen hat. Einer
dieser Torpedos hat das Heck des Schiffes " OITUZ ",Liege-
platz 22, getroffen. Ein anderer traf die- Quaimauer des
Liegeplatzes 23.

Archiv des Ministeriums für Nationale Verteidigung
Fach 1401.Dossier Nr. 151, Blatt 329

Also könnten bei etwas Glück ja auch andere Berichte usw. erhalten geblieben sein.

An der Liste der rumänischen Verluste auf der Donau hätte ich natürlich großes Interesse.

Dank und Gruß

Theo
Marine-Doku-zen.th.dorgeist@web.de

**********************
Hello Viktor,
for me would be it already interesting to experience whether the war diaries of the Romanian gunboats at all is still present to the engagements after 24 August 1944.

In times of the cold war I succeeded once, I believe in the exchange against information to German mine fields in the black sea to receive two documents from Romania after this time.

From the report No. 36773 v. 1 September 1944.. 12 o'clock.
"at the night from 31 August 1944 on 1 September 1944 the ship" became OITUZ, which embodied in the port Konstantza was, with couch place 22, by a torpedo ge troffen and at the tail damaged; whereby these sail-hurry sank one assumed that the attack was caused by a German Untersee boat or speedboat." Archives of the Ministry for national defense subject 1401.Dossier NR. 150, sheet 75

from the report No. 12 v. ó. Setember 1944 of the commander of the ship CHICULESCO IOAN captain second lieutenant Costin N. Constantin 1 September 1944, hour 3. a large detonation alarms the crew. The tail of the ship "OITUZ? it sinks, believes that it is the effect of an expression. In the course of the daily I experience that a German submarine, which was with the entry of the port shot several torpedoes toward harbor basins. One of these torpedoes met the tail of the ship "OITUZ", lying place 22. Another met the Quaimauer of the couch place 23.
Archives of the Ministry for national defense subject 1401.Dossier NR. 151, sheet 329 thus could have remained received with something luck also different reports etc..

At the list of the Romanian losses on the Danube I would have naturally large interest.

Owing to and greeting

Theo

Marine-Doku-zen.th.dorgeist@web.de
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Michi
Posted: August 16, 2003 06:13 pm
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Hello Victor,
I have some other numbers of German ships lost in the mentioned ports.



QUOTE
The 1st and 3rd River Groups captured between 28 and 30 August: 16 armed tugs, 3 artillery pontoons, a medical convoy, 68 barges. They also blocked German ships in the Calafat (97), Gruia (3),Corabia (27) and Bistret ports (21), where they were seized.


At CALAFAT(km 0795): 22(!), NOT 97, 22 German vessels were lost. Within the 22 vessels were 6 Marine-Fährprahmen (armed barges).

At GRUIA(km 0851): M/Tg "MAINZ" and 2 Marine-Fähr-Prahmen (armed barges) were lost. (you are right with 3!)

At BISTRET(km ): Is there any other name for this port??

QUOTE
The NMS Sborul torpedo-boat was at Cernavoda on 23 August. On 25 August it sunk a German armed tug and captured 9 supply ships near Harsova.


In the area of HARSOVA/HIRSOVA/HÖRSOVA(km 0253), a larger German supply center (CO: Korvettenkapitän KUHLMANN), the Germans lost 4 Marine-Fähr-Prahmen (armed barges) and 3 other ships.


MfG Michi


PS: My sources are from German, Austrian, Hungarian, Russian and English origin.
The only sources I miss are Romanian and Bulgarian.
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Th. Dorgeist
Posted: August 17, 2003 01:56 pm
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Fruntas
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Hello !


Vikor wrote:
Sorry, I only have a list of Romanian losses on the Danube.


Hat man eine Chance die Verluste der rumänischen Donauschiffahrt, ( 1944 oder
1941-1945 ? ) irgendwann einmal zu Vergleichzwecken zu erhalten ??
Es gab ja nach Mai 1945 noch rumänische Schiffe in Bayern !

Grüße


Theo

Does one have a chance the losses of Romanian Danube shipping, (1944 or 1941-1945?
to receive) sometime once for comparison purposes??

There were after May 1945 still Romanian ships in Bavaria!

Greet

Theo
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C-2
Posted: August 17, 2003 07:05 pm
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Victor is on vacantion.....
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Th. Dorgeist
Posted: August 17, 2003 08:22 pm
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Fruntas
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Danke C - 2.


Theo
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PT Dockyard
Posted: August 18, 2003 01:48 am
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Just curious- how were all these German ships "lost?" By gunfire from Romanian ships? Scuttled? Mines? Surrendered?

I would be very interested in details of any actions, especially any beween German armed barges ( MFPs or AFPs) and Romanian monitors.

Dave G.
The PT Dockyard
Home of the half complete master of a 1/600 Romanian monitor
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Victor
Posted: August 21, 2003 10:08 am
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Date/Ship/Location

14.08.1941 Barge CNR no. 296 Mile 19
20.02.1943 Barge NFR no. 619 Km 497
12.03.1943 Barge NFR no. 226 Km 497
27.09.1943 Barge NFR no. 43 Km 956
05.05.1944 Barge NFR no. 5152 Km 933
05.05.1944 Barge NFR no. 692 Km 933
05.05.1944 Barge NFR no. 640 Km 933
05.05.1944 Barge NFR no. 408 Km 933
01.06.1944 Barge NFR no. 353 Km 490
07.06.1944 Barge Ceremus Km 490
31.07.1944 Barge NFR no. 732 Km 688
31.07.1944 Tug Maria no. 732 Km 687
31.07.1944 Barge Km 687
09.08.1944 Barge JRP 16701 Km 652
11.08.1944 Barge JRP 26546 Km 676
11.08.1944 Barge DDSG 6729 Km 676
11.08.1944 Barge DDSG 10017 Km 1023
17.08.1944 Barge DDSG 9762 Km 747
17.08.1944 Tug Km 745
17.08.1944 Barge Km 736
17.08.1944 Barge DDSG 65250 Km 723
17.08.1944 Avram Iancu Km 962
20.08.1944 Barge MFTR 606 Km 809
20.08.1944 Tug Oituz Km 615
01.09.1944 Tug Bihor Km 852
01.09.1944 Tug Km 852
08.09.1944 Tug Halma Km 930
21.09.1944 Barge NFR 405 Km 878
30.09.1944 Tug Alba Iulia Km 956
04.10.1944 Barge NFR 1692 Km 1090
11.10.1944 Tug Gherdap Km 959
19.10.1944 Tug Amurgul Km 1095
25.10.1944 Tug Dambovita Km 1084
26.10.1944 Tug Bratianu Km 1098
26.10.1944 Tug Ardeal Km 1097
26.10.1944 Tank SRD 30 Km 1093
26.10.1944 Motor Tank Km 1066
03.11.1944 Barge NFR no. 779 Km 1048
03.11.1944 Barge Valul Km 1046
03.11.1944 Barge NFR no. 6141 Km 1098
03.11.1944 Barge DDSG 65150 Km 1066
03.11.1944 Tank DDSG 6535 Km 1066
03.11.1944 Barge NFR no. 400 Km 908
03.11.1944 Barge NFR no. 632 Km 892
03.11.1944 Tug Km 613
03.11.1944 Barge Km 609
03.11.1944 Motor tank Km 580
03.11.1944 barge MFTR no. 18 Km 565
03.11.1944 Motor barge Km 539
03.11.1944 Barge JRP 26515 Km 500
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Th. Dorgeist
Posted: August 21, 2003 10:50 am
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26. August 1944

Hallo Victor

Vielen Dank für die lange Liste mit teilweise für mich unbekannten Angaben.

Gestern fiel mir ein Tagebuchauszug vom 26.Aug. 1944 in die Hände.

Welchen rumänischen Schleppzug hat BECHELAREN wohl bei Orsovo versenkt ?

Ich habe nie weiteres dazu gehört oder gelesen.

Dank und Gruß


Theo

hello Victor thank you for the long list with partly data unknown for me.
Yesterday me a diary excerpt of the 26.Aug fell. 1944 into the hands.
Which Romanian schleppzug ( train of barges ) did BECHELAREN probably sink with Orsovo?
I belonged or read never further to it.

Owing to and greeting

Theo
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Th. Dorgeist
Posted: August 22, 2003 08:51 am
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Fruntas
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Hallo !

17.08.1944 Tug Km 745

17.08.1944 rumänischer Tug Decebel durch britische Luftmine gesunken bei km 666.

Können die beiden Verluste identisch sein trotz km 745 > 666 ??

Hat Jemand Daten zum Tug DECEBEL ??

Grüße
************************************************

Hello!

17,08,1944 Tug km 745
17,08,1944 Romanian Tug Decebel by British aerial mine sunk with km 666.

Can the two losses be identical despite km 745 > 666??

Does someone have data to the Tug DECEBEL??

Greetings

Theo
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Victor
Posted: August 23, 2003 06:15 am
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Probably you are right.
Anyway it seems that the list is not complete. I found several other ships lost:

26.05.1943 Ismail Km 72 (damaged; 5 dead)
27.05.1943 Mihai Viteazul Mile 49

These two were the most modern river passenger ships in the Romanian inventory.
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Andreas von Mach
Posted: September 09, 2003 10:16 am
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Hi Theo!

I have DECEBAL ex ARHANGELOS built 1889 Glasgow
Private oned,ie. not state not large shipowners.
21.48x3.80x1.77m 100ihp

Not as Romanian 1916 & 1921 registered.
I have no 1935 register.

Not yet traced as there some lack in yard list. Especially Alley & MacLellan, Gasgow , which built any small& riverine vessels is
not completed. Also possible is ex name :-(
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