P-51 D Mustang 4thFG captured by ARR ???, Unknown story of P-51D on rom. airfield

Hold on guys!!!

WD-O was not 44-13555 "Thunderbird"! That was WD-D. The 4th FG website has made a mistake there. Check http://www.littlefriends.co.uk instead.
According to the mission list for Ted Lines his last mission in 44-13555 WD-D was on 30 September 1944. Also there is no loss information available for this aircraft as far as I'm aware.
Capt. Lines has never flown an aircraft with the code WD-O on a mission.
NB. Ted Lines passed away on June 14, 2005 in his home in Arizona.


So now that's cleared up, what aircraft are we looking at? Here are all known P-51D models with WD-O callsign (all 335th FS/4th FG):


44-13399: Damaged 21 June 1944 during "Frantic" mission and left in Russia - Lt. James W Russell Jr

44-13567: Lost 18 Aug 44 - Lt. Bernard J Rosenson KIA MACR 8145

44-14066: Assigned to Capt. Albert L. Schlegel; Lost in this a/c 28 Aug 44, KIA, MACR 8299

44-14435: Assigned to Maj. Louis H Norley; noseart: "Red Dog"; Lost 21 Feb 45 - Lt. August W Rabe POW, MACR 12596

44-15028: Assigned to Maj. Louis H Norley; noseart: "Red Dog"; transferred to Willruth as WD-Y


It can't be the first as it was left in Russia. Neither can it be the fourth as it was lost in 1945 nor can it be the last as it was re-painted as WD-Y.

The only two left are 44-13567 and 44-14066. However 44-14066 was a P-51D-10-NA (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1944_1.html) and therefore should have had the dorsal strake in front of the tailfin!

So the aircraft you're looking at must be 44-13567. This is confirmed by the "413xxx" visible in the photographs.

I hope this helps

This post has been edited by Skyraider3D on May 01, 2006 08:19 am

I disagree here. For the Americans, if an airplane landed behind the Russian front lines, no matter where those lines actually were on that particular date, it was considered Russian (occupied) territory. So our Mustang might have very well been the first aircraft, too.

Gen. Dénes

P.S. Nice historical detective work, though, Skyraider...

This post has been edited by Dénes on April 30, 2006 03:18 am

Good job, Skyraider.

Do you know what mission and combat zone Lt. Bernard J. Rosenson lost his life ?

Good thinking Dénes!

According to my info, 44-13399 was left behind and salvaged in Russia on 4 Juli. In other words, the Russians got this one.

But I just found out that 44-13567 was lost over France! That is, if this info is correct: http://www.chez.com/franckruffino/My-Site/Victory_30.htm
Furthermore:
ROSENSON, Bernard J. - Lt., 335th FS, KIA - Les Andelys area, France, 8/18/44. During a bounce by 50+ Me-109s after strafing. Not seen to go down. P-51D 44-13567 WD-O
from: http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/resource/tribute.html
It's unlikely that Rosenson found his way to Romania...

So that turns the odds in favour for 44-13399 again and you're probably right that not the Russians but the Romanians captured 44-13399!

This post has been edited by Skyraider3D on April 30, 2006 12:23 pm

[/U]Hello,

I have read somewhere Serial number 43-24857 "Dorothy II" number "90" that became "Sweet Clara II" and was used by Cantacuzino as just "Sweet Clara".
He later used a second P51.

I have WD-O for the following P51's of the 4th FGthat have macr's
42-106464; 43-6770 (WD-O bar); 44-13567; 44-14066; 44-14435 and there must have been others .

However with regard to "WD-O" also there was also another Fighter Group that used the codes "WD" besides the 8AF's 4th FG.

As for the 325FG 317FS a/c "Sleepy Ann" number "71" allegedly flown August/Sept 44 by "Bázú".

Was "71" "Sleepy Ann" the same "71" named "Shirley Jean" serial number 42-103450 ?

Alex

This post has been edited by Alex on May 01, 2006 02:41 am

Probably you read it from "Aeromagazin" nr 6 /2002.
Indeed P-51 B (no. 90) Sn 43-24857 was first time flown by Lt. Robert Baker as "Dorothy II" and on june, 6th '44 he shot down near Galati one Bf-109 from Gr.9Vt. (pilot Sgt Miron ) In the same battle Bazu shot down P-51 B sn 42-103369 (Lt. J.Mumford -325thFG).
Later P-51 B no 90 was flown by Lt Russel Elliot and renamed "Sweet Clara II".

42-106464, 43-6770 both were P-51 B
44-13567 P-51-D lost with Bernard Rosenson in France.
44-14066, 44-14435 doesnt match with first three numbers (4) 413 from P-51 D fin .

Yes it was 52thFG (15thAF) who used WD code but the third letter (or number) was painted on the fin (not on fuselage).

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on May 01, 2006 07:26 am

Yes is the same . Shirley Jean was flown by Lt. Thomas O. Batey (319sq).

Hello,
Thanks for the confirmation re "71" but when did "Sleepy Ann" change from being "88" to being "71" ?
As I also have "88" as 42-103514 ?

and

as for 52FG a/c there must have been a time when the yellow outlined in black fuselage bands were in process of change and tail letters came in did the Group have a/c letters on fuselage before then or at any time at all ?

Alex

Peter Randall of the LittleFriends website offered me the following possibility for "WD-O" in Romania...

44-13472
WD-O
4th FS/52nd FG
lost (MIA) on 8 July 1944, said to be over Hungary
Pilot: Glenroy G Grewe (MACR 6595)

Hmmm...

I couldn't find this particular Mustang among the USAAF warplanes crashed on Hungarian soil in July 1944.
More details would be welcome.

Gen. Dénes

Hey We are moving away from our subject.

The P-51 D we are looking for is from 4thFG (8thAF) not from 52thFG (15thAF).

Below is described the 52thFG markings :


"The main Group marking was the yellow band edged in black around the fuselage; this was repeated around the outer wing tip and midway round the tailplane in various combinations. Some fighters had both, some had only one - The yellow band around the inboard wing on this aeroplane was a common P-51 identification marking in Italy and not a Group marking. Likewise, the red nose was common to all allied fighters in the Mediterranean theatre.
The 2nd Fighter Squadron is identified by the code letters 'QP' on the fuselage, the individual letter in black being on the vertical tail. These individual letters were always on the fin for all three squadrons of the Group, sometimes plain black or sometimes yellow outlined with black. The 4th Fighter Squadron was coded 'WD' and the 5th FS 'VF'; thus the codes for the three Sqns of the 52nd Group duplicated those of the famous 4th Fighter Group (the Debden Eagles) of the 8th AF based in the UK.
Later on, towards the end of WWII, the 52nd changed its markings to an all yellow tail and rear fuselage, retaining the wing tip bands."

And a picture with a bunch of 52th Mustangs (D-model).


This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on May 02, 2006 05:10 pm

It can't be a 52thFg Mustang. And the reasons are very clear.

The pilot Lt.Glenn Grewe was reported MIA in escort mission to Florisdorf Oil Refinery in Vienna (Austria) aprox. 80Km from Hungary border.
No chance for the pilot to fly and land at Popesti Leordeni,Romania.

I am sorry, but I cannot see any black stripes on the fuselage, only two white ones.
I will check my copy once I'll at home (mine is blurry, too).

Gen. Dénes