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> Vlad Tepes & Stefan cel Mare adv. alliance, Medieval history
Iamandi
Posted: December 06, 2004 12:48 pm
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We know about Tepes help given to Stefan cel Mare, to become "voievod" of Moldavia.
We know about Stefan cel Mare, when he tryed to take Chilia, in a momment when Valachia was in war against turcs.

This two mans was friends, but why and what if... they were not real allies - they are real allies against turcs and against the petenders to the trone? Maybe a powerful aliance valachian-moldavian may was a precedent to the future, a good one. And maybe turcs may be throwed out of Europe, Bizant retaken, and we are seen in another (good) way from our co-european neighbours, who forget today some things...

We had some advantage in our tactics and military art. We had the best light cavalry, and in Europe we used this organization with an advance of 200 years. Our night charge and "commando" skirmishes were enough to create on our enemys brains ideeas of "djinii" (turc lang.) phantoms - spirits... Our leaders make some cold-thinking decizion and posses maybe the best info's about turcs... Moldavia and "Kara Iflak" were considered "countrys of heaven, were are rivers of honey" , "land promissed by Allah himself".

What are implications of an advanced alliance Vlad Tepes and Stefan cel Mare for that tyme, and for future?

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contras
Posted: January 28, 2010 09:32 pm
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I think there was an alliance betwen them, but the events take their part. When Vlad begin his war against Turks, Stefan was not prepaired, not ready, his rule was not consolidated. And I think there was a great difference between them: Vlad was too impulsive, and Stefan too calculate.
You are right, that kind of alliance existed before (Iancu de Hunedoara was for a time allied with Vlad Dracul, father of Vlad Tepes) and later (during the time of Michael the Brave), and the results were very good. But this alliances doesn't lasted too long.
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Victor
Posted: January 29, 2010 08:02 am
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The two small Romanian states lacked the power to pose a real threat to the Ottoman presence in the Balkan Peninsula, but an alliance would have probably helped preserve their independence to a higher degree or in more favorable economical terms.

Both cousins were clearly gifted military leaders. Unfortunately Stephen saw (or gained the necessary experience) too late to profit from the power Vlad represented. His attempts to install an ally on the throne of Wallachia failed time and time again in the 1470s, culminating with Vlad's death in 1476.

A Moldavian intervention during the Ottoman invasion of Wallachia could have shifted the scales in Vlad's favor and prevented the boyars from joining Radu's Ottoman sponsored rule.

The key laid in having too strong princes on the throne of Wallachia and Moldavia and in keeping the key ports at the Danube and at the Black Sea, which could help finance a strong enough army to repulse the Ottomans. Going to the offensive however required a much broader European support.
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contras
Posted: January 29, 2010 08:12 am
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In 1462, Vlad wasn't defeated, he was betrayed by Mathias Corvin, who jailed him, because he wanted silence at southern frontier to prepare his war for succesion at Bohemian throne.
As a paralel, in 1595, when Michael the Brave retreated after Calugareni battle, Sigismund Bathory and Stephan Razvan, voivod of Moldavia, came to soport him.
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contras
Posted: February 06, 2010 08:32 pm
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Maybe the first important alliance between Romanians countries was under Mircea cel Batran, when, in 1399, he "taked Iuga, moldavian voievod, at him" (chronicles said) and put in place the new voivod Alexander, who was named after the Good One (Alexandru cel Bun). He was an trusted ally of Mircea cel Batran, the first confrontation that Moldavia had with Turks was in 1420, under his rule (1400-1432).
In this time, until Mircea's death, it was an permanent alliance of Valachia (Tara Romaneasca), Moldavia and Hungaria (under king Sigismund de Luxembourg) against Turks.
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Victor
Posted: February 07, 2010 07:52 pm
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QUOTE (contras @ January 29, 2010 10:12 am)
In 1462, Vlad wasn't defeated, he was betrayed by Mathias Corvin, who jailed him, because he wanted silence at southern frontier to prepare his war for succesion at Bohemian throne.

Vlad lost the support of the boyars who had flocked to join Radu for different reasons. He had also lost the support of the free peasants who had grown weary of war, just like the boyars, and went to fend for their homes. And lastly he had no more money to pay his mercenaries. In the end he had no army. This is why he fled to Transylvania, where thanks to his previous military raids and pillaging, he really didn't have any friends. I would say he was defetead. War is not fought only on the battlefields.

This only goes to show that prolonged warfare was not sustainable for a small country like Wallachia or Moldavia against such a big empire. At best their strength combined could have defeated the Ottoman attacks, but not be able to oust the Ottomans out of Europe. We re talking about probably the best organized military force of the 15-16th centuries in Europe. They were not ammateurs.

Anotherthing that you should take into account is the nobility. They did not like long wars, because they risked loosing a lot. A peasant could hide his family and the cow in the forrest. A boyar had much more at stake. Thus they would fight with all their might only in two situations: the very existance of the state was at stake (the rule of Radu de la Afumati is a clear example) or if the prince was a very strong figure, but in the same time one who knew thow to keep them close or reward them.

Vlad was a difficult and unpredictable person. Once the danger of loosing everything disappeared and the sultan decided to leave Walachia to Radu cel Frumos, many made changed the camp in order to restore the peace in the land and with it their fortunes. Some of them also had their families held hostage by Radu so this also helped them be convinced.
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contras
Posted: February 07, 2010 08:47 pm
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The war with Ottoman Empire fought by Vlad Tepes was not so long, the campaign of Mohamed lasted about a couple of mounths. Previous campaign of Vlad south of Danube lasted the same, during this time Vlad killed 23000 Turks. (he said in a letter adressed to Matei Corvin that counted the heads).

The money that pope sent to Vlad for his war, and to hire mercenaries for a new crusade, were retained by Matei Corvin. This one needed about two mounths to arrive in Southern Transylvania, only to jailed Vlad. Later, in 1476, he sent him free, and with the help of Stephen the Great, become again voivod of Valachia, but he was killed short time later, during a fight with Turks.

About the military power of teh three romanian countries, they were very respected and feared in 15-16 century. Every one raised an army about 30 000 men (big army), all the German Lands were inable for such performance, because the lasts raised only nobility and their servants.

During Michael the Brave, Valachia raised and army aboud 50 000 men, from they over 10 000 were mercenaires.
This is the reason why pope and western roialty can't think about a crusade without Romanians.(I refere myself about later crusades, against Ottomans). And Romanians were part of every crusade.
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ANDREAS
Posted: February 08, 2010 06:10 pm
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QUOTE
We are talking about probably the best organized military force of the 15-16th centuries in Europe...

It's true, the Ottoman Empire were the first state to maintain a standing army in Europe since the Roman Empire. The Janissaries and the Spahis had no equivalent in the Christian armies of the time, where the feudal lords raised troops during wartime. They were always ready for battle and were the professional core of the Ottoman Army. So the things stand, it is noteworthy how big the romanian efforts in the battles were. Not to mention the terrible Tartar hordes who looted and enslaved the civilian population left defenseless behind de battle lines.
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contras
Posted: February 09, 2010 12:54 am
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However, the Romanians stands stil against this forces, many times with great succes. I could refer at the battles, there are so many, when Romanians stand against these profesional armies.
And I will refere just about the 15-16 century.
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contras
Posted: February 19, 2010 06:41 am
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The first Turk incursion in Romanian states was in 1369, during Vladislav I Vlaicu. Before that, Vladislav restored Bulgar tsar Stratomir at Vidin, overthroned by Turks. Other Bulgar tsar, from Tirnovo, wanted to recreate Romanian-Bulgar Empire, so he calls the turks to help him. That's how Turks invaded Valachia (end of 1371), but were beaten and driven back to Balkans. At this battle took part some Transylvanian troops, under command of Ladislau de Dobca (Dabaca). It was the first Romanian alliance against Turks, at the first Turk incursion north of Danube.
Later, in 1371, at Cimen, in Bulgaria, an Bulgarian army was defeated by Turks who attacked at night. With Bulgarians were some Romanian troops, too.
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