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> Targul Frumos Battle May 1944, Targul Frumos Battle May 1944
Bigduke6
Posted: November 09, 2004 09:31 am
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Hello every one, first of all I congratulate you excellent site. My historical leanings are the German-Soviet war in 1944, and I have learned a lot looking at your menus and forum comments.

I am dropping in here because I am researching a series of battles that took place in Romania in May 1944 around the town/city Targul Frumos, and I received advice that people on this site might be able to help me out. I hope so, one of the problems I am coming up against is that this fight took place effectively at the end of a long Soviet pursuit, so no one appears to have been keeping particularly good records.

I am interested in the operational and tactical details of a series of battles which took place primarily between the Wehrmacht and the Red Army, but also with significant participation of Romanian troops, near the city Targul Frumos in early May 1944. Maybe some of you can advise me on how I can find - hopefully via the Internet - some of the following:

1. A topographical map of the Targul Frumos vicinity:

This hopefully would include the regions around it. In the ideal world I would like to look at a swath of territory maybe 50km. x 50km, but I understand chances of finding something like that may not be so easy.

2. A first-hand description of the region:

I bet that some of you personally have been to Targul Frumos or at least travelled through there. I haven't. If you have the time maybe you could write a few lines about the terrain, especially from a military point of view: what's the ground look like, are the hills big or little, are there lots of fields or lots of forests, could you drive a tank across most of the streams or maybe the banks are too steep, what sort of crops are growing in May, stuff like that.

3. Information/descriptions of the fighting:

This would include all units, Romanian, German, Soviet. If it will help I can give you some general details I have gathered about the Russian and German troops at the battle.

4. Unit details:

Ideally I am looking for unit strengths - personnel counts, equipment strengths, supply status, fortifications, etc. - for all the battle participants.

Thanks for taking the time to read this post. If you want to answer here or send me an e-mail at dpaukraine@kiev.relc.com, your choice. All responses appreciated.

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Carol I
Posted: November 09, 2004 10:55 am
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QUOTE (Bigduke6 @ Nov 9 2004, 10:31 AM)
1. A topographical map of the Targul Frumos vicinity:

(IMG:http://archive.spaceimaging.com/ikonos/2/kpms/2003/10/browse.4132.crss_sat.3.0.jpg)

This is a Space Imaging satellite view of the town of Târgu Frumos (Lat: 47:14:25N Lon: 26:56:58E) covering an area of approximately 11 km by 19 km. Târgu Frumos itself is in the lower-left quadrant of the image. North is towards the left side. This image was taken on 29 October 2003, so it has the autumn look of the surrounding area.
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Carol I
Posted: November 09, 2004 11:15 am
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Some details about the battle at Târgu Frumos can be found on the site below.

Forgotten Battles of the German-Soviet War
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RHaught
Posted: November 10, 2004 02:23 am
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If you want German first hand accounts you need to find veterans from the Grossdeutchland Division. They are out there and know 2 of them but not allowed to give out their information. However, look for the reenactment unit on the east coast, their unit commander goes to the reunions each year. He might be willing to pass your name along. Been there but has been over 7 years ago so memory doesn't serve me well especially after getting off a plane and driving that far. Check other forums as well. Fieldgrau.com is another good one.
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Bigduke6
Posted: November 10, 2004 10:06 am
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Thanks appreciate the responses.
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cipiamon
Posted: November 10, 2004 12:41 pm
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QUOTE (RHaught @ Nov 10 2004, 02:23 AM)
They are out there and know 2 of them but not allowed to give out their information.

So the german veterans are not alowed to talk about the war and theyr happenings?
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Carol I
Posted: November 10, 2004 04:28 pm
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QUOTE (cipiamon @ Nov 10 2004, 01:41 PM)
QUOTE (RHaught @ Nov 10 2004, 02:23 AM)
They are out there and know 2 of them but not allowed to give out their information.

So the german veterans are not alowed to talk about the war and theyr happenings?

Or maybe RHaught does not have permission to give out their contact details (names, addresses etc.).
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Carol I
Posted: November 10, 2004 04:39 pm
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QUOTE (Bigduke6 @ Nov 9 2004, 10:31 AM)
... I am researching a series of battles that took place in Romania in May 1944 around the town/city Targul Frumos ...

I would appreciate if you could post in this thread (some of) the information you may come across. Thanks.
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RHaught
Posted: November 11, 2004 02:48 am
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QUOTE (Carol I @ Nov 10 2004, 04:28 PM)
QUOTE (cipiamon @ Nov 10 2004, 01:41 PM)
QUOTE (RHaught @ Nov 10 2004, 02:23 AM)
They are out there and know 2 of them but not allowed to give out their information.

So the german veterans are not alowed to talk about the war and theyr happenings?

Or maybe RHaught does not have permission to give out their contact details (names, addresses etc.).

Yes, not able to give that info out. They don't want idiots asking them if they killed Jews, were they at the camps, etc. A lot of the german soldiers weren't even members of the Nazi Party if that surpises some! :o
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Bigduke6
Posted: November 11, 2004 11:43 am
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Hello all!

The most detailed discussion on the battle that I have found is here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10353

There is a good deal of detail on Romanian participation. I recommend it. The thread has answered most of my questions about the Axis order of battle, and advanced me a good distance on the Soviet order of battle.

Where I am still weak is a map of the terrain. If any of you can point me in the right direction, I would be grateful. (Thanks for the satellite map, that helped but I want more!)

Cheers,
BD6



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Victor
Posted: November 11, 2004 02:29 pm
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QUOTE (Bigduke6 @ Nov 11 2004, 01:43 PM)
Hello all!

The most detailed discussion on the battle that I have found is here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10353

I was about to suggest you that older discussion. It was pretty interesting, but still there are plenty of things left out as far as I am concerned.
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Carol I
Posted: November 11, 2004 06:47 pm
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Thanks for the link you have provided. I will read the materials posted there.

QUOTE (Bigduke6 @ Nov 11 2004, 12:43 PM)
Thanks for the satellite map.

I am afraid I have unintentionally misled you. I do not know where the mistake was (either the coordinates for the town or those of the image are erroneous), but the settlement in the image above looks more like Ruginoasa, than Târgu Frumos. Thus, I think the right image of the area around Târgu Frumos is the one below.

(IMG:http://archive.spaceimaging.com/ikonos/2/kpms/2003/10/browse.4132.crss_sat.2.0.jpg)
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RHaught
Posted: November 16, 2004 01:31 am
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I have a Luftwaffe topo map of the region (Iasi) made in 1941. Once I figure out how to use the digital camera can post or send pic.
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Carol I
Posted: November 16, 2004 07:49 am
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QUOTE (RHaught @ Nov 16 2004, 02:31 AM)
I have a Luftwaffe topo map of the region (Iasi) made in 1941. Once I figure out how to use the digital camera can post or send pic.

I am looking forward to seeing the images of your map.
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Dénes
Posted: November 17, 2004 05:40 pm
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There is a similar thread going on on a Russian Military Forum:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?for...geid=1100199912

Col. Dénes
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