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> Fake Grand Cross Order of the Crown?
b737
Posted: November 24, 2004 09:31 am
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I have found on the backside of a military magazine(revista infanteriei) from 1931 this advertising....!

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Carol I
Posted: November 24, 2004 11:19 am
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QUOTE (b737 @ Nov 24 2004, 09:50 AM)
Yes,H.Weiss made both models from this order!

Thanks for this information.

QUOTE (b737 @ Nov 24 2004, 09:50 AM)
I saw pieces made by:
- Depozitul Decomed
- Croitoria si ceaprazaria militara "La Principele Bibescu"
- Carniol/Radivon.....

I have always thought that they manufactured only order cases, not the badges themselves.
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b737
Posted: November 25, 2004 10:01 am
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I don't think that Resch and Weiss have ever used cases with a different logo for the orders they made.
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boonicootza
Posted: November 25, 2004 10:51 am
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The problem I see with this cased order is the difference between the neck badge and the breaststar. The seller said that it's marked by Resch. It is possible that the set was made up by joining the breaststar with the neck badge and the case.
Maybe the breaststar was lost by the owner and this is a private purchase. Anyway it looks suspicious to me.
Does anyone have a picture of a similar breaststar or one of a different maker than Resch?

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Carol I
Posted: November 25, 2004 06:09 pm
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As far as I know, during the reign of King Carol II there was the rule (though not strictly enforced) that the orders had to be returned upon the death of the recipient. I therefore thought that "Depozitul Decomed" (i.e., Depozitul "Decoraţii şi medalii" - The Store for Decorations and Medals) manufactured cases for the orders that have been returned without the original case and which had to be presented to another person. But it is only a supposition and I could be wrong.

QUOTE (b737 @ Nov 25 2004, 11:01 AM)
I don't think that Resch and Weiss have ever used cases with a different logo for the orders they made.

I think I have seen some cases when a Resch badge came in a case from the National Mint, but the question is whether the case was original or not. I agree however that no self-respecting jeweller would present his badge in a case made by someone else.
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Carol I
Posted: November 30, 2004 08:16 pm
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Interesting version (from eBay) of a first type Commander's cross of the Order of the Crown of Romania. The suspension ring seems to have some hallmarks. Any idea about the manufacturer?

(IMG:http://www.dingolfing-online.de/ebay/orden_09a.jpg)(IMG:http://www.dingolfing-online.de/ebay/orden_09b.jpg)
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b737
Posted: November 30, 2004 09:29 pm
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QUOTE (Carol I @ Nov 30 2004, 08:16 PM)
Interesting version (from eBay) of a first type Commander's cross of the Order of the Crown of Romania. The suspension ring seems to have some hallmarks. Any idea about the manufacturer?

(IMG:http://www.dingolfing-online.de/ebay/orden_09a.jpg)(IMG:http://www.dingolfing-online.de/ebay/orden_09b.jpg)

Are you sure that this is a comander's cross? To me,it seems to be a grand cross.
Ask the seeler about the size of this cross and for a better scan of the hallmarks.
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Carol I
Posted: November 30, 2004 11:19 pm
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QUOTE (b737 @ Nov 30 2004, 10:29 PM)
Are you sure that this is a comander's cross? To me,it seems to be a grand cross.
Ask the seeler about the size of this cross and for a better scan of the hallmarks.

Well, it seems to be a Commander's cross as it is said to have only 5 cm. Anyhow, the actual size of the cross is not that important.

I was interested in the particular characteristics of this badge: small lettering on the white ribbon, tall letters on the red medallion etc. Do you know what manufacturer used them?
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b737
Posted: December 01, 2004 10:44 am
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Well, then this is a strange type of a commander's badge.If you are looking at the ribbon ring you will see that he's made from a simple piece of wire!!The round ring with this size is tipical for the grand cross badges.The size of the badge is also strange!I have in my collection a knight's grade badge with allmoust the same size(4,8cm!!!).
Consulting the book of N.T. Ionescu - Decortiunile Romane,ordine cruci si medalii,from 1915,the sizes for the badges are:
-knight and officer - 40mm
-commander and grand officer - 60mm
-grand cross - 70mm
Otherwise,I saw original badges with strange size,all of them made by this small manufactures or in case of my knight's badge by Lemaitre in Paris!


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Carol I
Posted: December 01, 2004 11:17 am
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QUOTE (b737 @ Dec 1 2004, 11:44 AM)
Well, then this is a strange type of a commander's badge.If you are looking at the ribbon ring you will see that he's made from a  simple piece of wire!!

I agree that the badge is strange from many points of view. Yet, the hallmarks seem to indicate that it is worked in silver. Was it then made in a small workshop or in a larger one of a renowned jeweller? Have you seen a similar badge before?

QUOTE (b737 @ Dec 1 2004, 11:44 AM)
...the sizes for the badges are:
-knight and officer - 40mm
-commander and grand officer - 60mm
-grand cross - 70mm

The size of the Maltese crosses is a tricky question. If you measure between the lower points of the horizontal arms you get less than if you measure the diameter (for example between the lower point of the left arm and the upper point of the right arm). In my opinion this could explain to a certain extent the differences between sizes quoted by various sources.

QUOTE (b737 @ Dec 1 2004, 11:44 AM)
... I saw original badges with strange size,all of them made by this small manufactures ...

Do you happen to know how many such small workshops produced badges of the Romanian orders? Do you have a list for example? Do you know what are their distinctive characteristics?

QUOTE (b737 @ Dec 1 2004, 11:44 AM)
I have in my collection a knight's grade badge with allmoust the same size(4,8cm!!!).
...
Otherwise,I saw original badges with strange size,all of them made by this small manufactures or in case of my knight's badge by Lemaitre in Paris!

Does your badge have any hallmarks? Could you post an image of the badge and the marks (or at least describe them)? Do you know when it was manufactured (before or after WWI)?

QUOTE (b737 @ Dec 1 2004, 11:44 AM)
N. T. Ionescu - Decoratiunile Romane - ordine, cruci si medalii (1915)

I am interested in consulting this book. Do you know how/where I may obtain a copy? Thanks.
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b737
Posted: December 01, 2004 11:55 am
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Yes I saw similar badges, but not with this kind of ring!For me the size of a badge is the external diameter!Unfortunately I don't know how many workshops have produced orders/decorations.I think they were a lot of them.I don't even know if the manufacturing in Romania,was concentrated only in Bukarest !
My badge has no hallmarks but I have it from the son of the recipent-in original case and with the "brevet". It is a so called 1916 model.The 1916 model is a little bit "flowery" than the normal 1st type! For aditional information contact me on email.

This post has been edited by b737 on December 01, 2004 12:01 pm
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Carol I
Posted: December 02, 2004 08:28 pm
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Thanks for the information. I will contact you in private for details.
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Carol I
Posted: May 29, 2005 03:34 pm
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Authentic or fake?

Grand Officer's star of the Order of the Crown of Romania ...
(IMG:http://img283.echo.cx/img283/4296/1dscf32072gw.jpg)

... but with rather poor quality reverse and no markings.
(IMG:http://img284.echo.cx/img284/9456/3dscf31962zl.jpg)
From eBay
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boonicootza
Posted: May 29, 2005 06:26 pm
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Original.
It's mine :P

The only thing I believe it's replaced it's the center piece on the back.

This post has been edited by boonicootza on May 29, 2005 06:58 pm
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Carol I
Posted: December 08, 2005 11:08 am
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I have seen this cross described as the "Order of the Crown of Romania for Ladies", in spite of being a Leopold cross than the traditional Maltese cross of the Order of the Crown of Romania. Could it rather be the Austrian Order of Leopold with which it shares both the shape and the colours?

(IMG:http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9343/ocrd3wb.jpg)
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